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Thread: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Well this case might change how we deal with fertility clinics which have thousands of fertilized eggs on ice.
    You called it.

    The Hill: Alabama Supreme Court rules frozen embryos are ‘children’

    Alabama’s Supreme Court has ruled that frozen embryos are children under state law and subject to legislation dealing with the wrongful death of a minor, stating that it “applies to all unborn children, regardless of their location.”

    The court issued this majority decision in a lawsuit brought forth by a group of in vitro fertilization (IVF) patients whose frozen embryos were destroyed in December 2020 when a patient removed the embryos from a cryogenic storage unit and dropped them on the ground.

    The plaintiffs subsequently filed two lawsuits against the facility, the Center for Reproductive Medicine, alleging that the clinic had violated Alabama’s Wrongful Death of a Minor Act, which applies to unborn children.

    The plaintiffs also alternatively alleged negligence on the part of the clinic and sought compensatory damages, though the claims of negligence were specified to only be pleaded if Alabama Courts or the U.S. Supreme Court decided frozen embryos were not children.

    The defendant’s motion to dismiss the lawsuits were granted by a trial court that found a frozen embryo did not fall within the “definition of a ‘person’ or ‘child.'” The court also ruled that the plaintiffs could not proceed with their calls for compensatory damages for the loss of a human life and emotional damages, citing long-standing legal standards in Alabama.

    In its decision, the Alabama Supreme Court did not address the question of whether “extrauterine children” should be treated as human beings, but it did find that state law did not specify what state an unborn child is to be in.

    “The relevant statutory text is clear: the Wrongful Death of a Minor Act applies on its face to all unborn children, without limitation,” the court’s decision stated.

    The court found that there is no unwritten exception, as the defendants have argued, to the law that applies to “unborn children who are not physically located ‘in utero’ — that is, inside a biological uterus — at the time they are killed.”

    The defendants had also argued that considering frozen embryos as children would result in numerous consequences, including making IVF substantially more expensive and preserving embryos more “onerous.”

    “While we appreciate the defendants’ concerns, these types of policy focused arguments belong before the Legislature, not this Court,” the ruling stated.

    The ruling was issued by Alabama Supreme Court Justice Jay Mitchell, with seven of the other eight justices concurring.

    Alabama Supreme Court Justice Greg Cook issued a dissenting opinion.

    Cook argued in his opinion that it was not within the role of the court to “expand the reach of a statute and ‘breathe life’ into it by updating or amending it.” He argued the law that was written in 1872 would not have taken into account the status of frozen embryos and to argue that the law does would require an explicit amendment from the state Legislature.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Let's say an embryo is destroyed, whatever that person would have become is no more if that embryo is destroyed. The NYT crossword puzzle today clue was, "what is a future oak tree". Whether people can ever agree with when life begins, surely, we can agree that if you destroy an acorn, whatever tree it would have become will never occur.
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    It occurred to me that whoever owns these frozen embryos also consider them children in case they need, decide, or chose to use them. I heard a woman speak last night on NPR that referred to a stored embryo as the one that produced her daughter. She was upset over the ruling since she had more stored.

    What would be more honest is for these folks to admit an embryo is what it is instead of trying some mental gymnastics to allow it to appear nothing of value is being destroyed. You cannot think your daughter's life originated from a frozen embryo and at the same instant say the others have no redeeming value.
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    What promoted the Alabama ruling,
    "MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — The Alabama Supreme Court ruled last week that couples who were trying in vitro fertilization and lost frozen embryos in an accident at a south Alabama storage facility can sue under the state’s wrongful death law."
    https://apnews.com/article/alabama-f...3a609e360c242c
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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