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Thread: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

  1. #221
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Regarding birth control, what if it becomes illegal. Do the Republicans want to make sex illegal also? What about living together?

    If doctors go to jail for abortions, do preachers go to jail for marrying folks not okayed by the Republicans?

  2. #222
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Non-human animals have personalities, too. A baby has less personality than a mature monkey. Which was used in testing?

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

    That said, an 8 week old baby will surpass a Lab puppy over time. Human don't rub their rears on the ground to clean.
    Sadly, not all humans.
    Also, humans scratch their butts when they itch. https://www.pawposse.com/why-do-dogs...loor/blog-394/

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Lloyd; May 13th, 2022 at 12:27 PM.
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  3. #223
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Non-human animals have personalities, too. A baby has less personality than a mature monkey. Which was used in testing?

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

    That said, an 8 week old baby will surpass a Lab puppy over time. Human don't rub their rears on the ground to clean.
    Sadly, not all humans.
    Also, humans scratch their buttons when they itch. https://www.pawposse.com/why-do-dogs...loor/blog-394/

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    True…lol😂, but I suspect you get my point ?

  4. #224
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I don’t think most people, religious or not think breath and soul are the same.
    .
    I gave you some evidence. You gave me an ill-informed opinion, based on your limited knowledge and considerable bias. Here's another view of the "soul."

    It's a difficult thing to imagine, but according to Buddhist ideology, the you that you think of when you think of yourself -- the you reading this article right now -- doesn't really exist. Unlike almost every other religious faith or spiritual practice, in Buddhism, there is no concept of a "soul," eternal or otherwise. Instead, Buddhists believe that the soul, or "self" is only a temporary composite of matter, sensations, perceptions, thought and consciousness that dissipates and ceases to exist at death. For Christians, Jews and Muslims, the soul is largely synonymous with consciousness, and survives the demise of the body. In contrast, Buddhists believe the self, or the soul, to be an illusion -- merely the product of an impermanent mind, perception, sensation and ego. Because the mind, perception, emotion and consciousness are constantly changing, the self is ephemeral and cannot be considered an abiding entity.

    https://classroom.synonym.com/the-bu...-12086646.html

    Buddhist practice relies strongly on the awareness of breathing and means to regulate and enhance it.

    One of the oldest forms of Buddhist meditation is breath meditation, which was called anapanasati, or “mindfulness of breathing” in the early texts. The Buddha’s description makes it clear that this one form of meditation leads to advanced practice that culminates in liberation itself.

    At its most basic, mindfulness of breathing is simply “keeping the breath in mind,” or being continuously aware of the sensations of the in- and out-breath. With practice, the mind can develop the ability to stay absorbed in the breath in a way that leads to blissful states of clarity and focus. Following the Buddha’s instructions, practitioners can then use meditation on the breath to cultivate liberating insight into the nature of mind and reality.

    https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddh...th-the-breath/

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I’ve read that the personality is a part of the soul. What’s your opinion?
    See above. Not sure what you mean by personality or soul.

    I believe in sa’áh naagháí bik’eh hózhóó, which I don't expect you to understand.
    Last edited by Chip; May 13th, 2022 at 11:49 AM.

  5. #225
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    .

    I believe in sa’áh naagháí bik’eh hózhóó, which I don't expect you to understand.
    Several people are reading this thread. Just tell us what this means, for our collective curiosity and edification.

  6. #226
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    .
    I gave you some evidence. You gave me an ill-informed opinion, based on your limited knowledge and considerable bias. Here's another view of the "soul."

    It's a difficult thing to imagine, but according to Buddhist ideology, the you that you think of when you think of yourself -- the you reading this article right now -- doesn't really exist. Unlike almost every other religious faith or spiritual practice, in Buddhism, there is no concept of a "soul," eternal or otherwise. Instead, Buddhists believe that the soul, or "self" is only a temporary composite of matter, sensations, perceptions, thought and consciousness that dissipates and ceases to exist at death. For Christians, Jews and Muslims, the soul is largely synonymous with consciousness, and survives the demise of the body. In contrast, Buddhists believe the self, or the soul, to be an illusion -- merely the product of an impermanent mind, perception, sensation and ego. Because the mind, perception, emotion and consciousness are constantly changing, the self is ephemeral and cannot be considered an abiding entity.

    https://classroom.synonym.com/the-bu...-12086646.html

    Buddhist practice relies strongly on the awareness of breathing and means to regulate and enhance it.

    One of the oldest forms of Buddhist meditation is breath meditation, which was called anapanasati, or “mindfulness of breathing” in the early texts. The Buddha’s description makes it clear that this one form of meditation leads to advanced practice that culminates in liberation itself.

    At its most basic, mindfulness of breathing is simply “keeping the breath in mind,” or being continuously aware of the sensations of the in- and out-breath. With practice, the mind can develop the ability to stay absorbed in the breath in a way that leads to blissful states of clarity and focus. Following the Buddha’s instructions, practitioners can then use meditation on the breath to cultivate liberating insight into the nature of mind and reality.

    https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddh...th-the-breath/

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I’ve read that the personality is a part of the soul. What’s your opinion?
    See above. Not sure what you mean by personality or soul.

    I believe in sa’áh naagháí bik’eh hózhóó, which I don't expect you to understand.
    For someone who admits they don’t know what I said, you sure blathered on for a while.

    Simmer down man. You’ll live longer…::lol!😂😂😂

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    As much of this thread has devolved into a religious debate, I refer (without endorsement) you to prolifesf.com for an atheist prolife point of view.

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?


  9. #229
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    . I believe in sa’áh naagháí bik’eh hózhóó.
    Several people are reading this thread. Just tell us what this means, for our collective curiosity and edification.
    If you copy the phrase and search it, you'll find quite a lot of material. In brief, it's the core belief of the Diné (Navajo) people, which translates as something like: Walk in Beauty. They believe in a universal harmony that orders all things, and try to stay in balance with it. I taught and counselled Diné students, who began teaching me their language (starting with jokes). As my interest developed, I took it on as my MA language and studied Diné culture and beliefs, which made a profound sort of sense.

    The Diné have an intricate conception of the role of wind (and breath) in the scheme of things, pervading both the natural world and human and animal bodies. A good reference, which doesn't require knowledge of the Diné language, is Holy Wind in Navajo Philosophy by Jame Kale McNeley (U. Arizona Press, 1981).
    Last edited by Chip; May 14th, 2022 at 01:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Very interesting, thanks.

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    The language (Diné Bizaad) is very precise in describing the natural world, distance, direction, action, animal behavior, etc. Diné cosmology is detailed and given the lack of instruments and experimentation, strangely accurate.

    For instance, it incorporates something very much like Bell's Theorem (quantum entanglement or "spooky action at a distance.")

    Given the complexity of the known universe, virtually any account of creation rests on metaphor and assumes the form of an extended folktale. While I don't take any of it literally, the Diné creation myths are much richer and more beautiful than the euro-christian ones.

    Yá'át'ééh.

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    TSherbs (May 15th, 2022)

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    I once read about a dozen Native American creation myths. Some were quite wild, and so refreshing not to have sin and punishment have such a central role in humans' first interactions with the divine.

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    Lloyd (May 14th, 2022)

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    The concepts of “total depravity” and “sin” are interesting to consider. Let’s say no Bible did exist. H

    “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God”.

    Let’s say all have not measured up to the glory of Donald Trump.

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    He who works in mysterious ways, his Twitter posts to form. . .

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    ...so refreshing not to have sin and punishment have such a central role in humans' first interactions with the divine.
    Why do you think that is the case?

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    The Diné don't believe people are born bad (original sin) but only that they can become bad through their choices and actions.

    Much of the belief system is based on cause and effect, in present terms. The causes are not always immediately clear, which lends a role to specialists who interpret them, and to practitioners, who prescribe and conduct ceremonies to alleviate them.

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  20. #237
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    ...so refreshing not to have sin and punishment have such a central role in humans' first interactions with the divine.
    Why do you think that is the case?
    Bad question. Meant to ask what makes you think humans' first interaction with the divine was sin and punishment?

  21. #238
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Bad question. Meant to ask what makes you think humans' first interaction with the divine was sin and punishment?
    You have read Genesis and the Garden of Eden tale?

    Takes a quick fella to beat the snake. . .


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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Yes Chip, I've read it. If you have you'd know that there were many interactions between God and Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before the episode of the apple.
    I can't tell if TS [and you] are misrepresenting the story intentionally or from lack of familiarity with Genesis.

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    There were two trees in the garden. One led to death and the other life. One introduced the idea of good and evil. The other a path for living. Lots to unpack when considering, but I think most would agree with those concepts.

    Trying to be good is a hard row to hoe.

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