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Thread: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    I'm only asking for clarification so that I understand what you are saying about abortion law.

    I still don't understand your basic position regarding legal access to abortion.

    Either you are for it, or against it.

    If you are against it, then the nuances of law won't matter to you.

    If you are in support of access, then we could discuss further what limitations on it you would support (or oppose).

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Former Vice-President Mike Pence, who has long been a leader in the evangelical Christian movement, said his side had to focus on passing abortion bans in state legislatures.

    "We must not rest and must not relent until the sanctity of life is restored to the centre of American law in every state in the land," he said.
    There is no subject so old that something new cannot be said about it.

    Fyodor Dostoevsky

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Yeah, this kind of thing is partly why Trump put Pence on his ticket back in 2016. If you keep digging into Pence, you will find other extreme religious positions. Evangelicals loved him: he fed their righteousness and put a veneer of Christian acceptability over the pagan Trump.

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    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Is Pence a Vegan? If he's not, he doesn't view all life as something to be protected.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Is Pence a Vegan? If he's not, he doesn't view all life as something to be protected.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Well, his sacred bible sure does not value all life, not even all human life. Do you need to look much further?

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Is Pence a Vegan? If he's not, he doesn't view all life as something to be protected.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Life in the image of God is to be protected over other forms of life.
    Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Is Pence a Vegan? If he's not, he doesn't view all life as something to be protected.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Life in the image of God is to be protected over other forms of life.
    What does your God look like? No two people are truly 100% identical in visual looks. How broadly can your statement be interpreted? Is God a biped? Does he have an Adam's Apple? Make or female? What color eyes, skin, hair? Balding? A human at what stage of life does God look like? During development in utero, humans resemble many animals. Does God look like any of these?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    This is a short video that might help explain it.

    https://www.desiringgod.org/intervie...-in-gods-image
    Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

  10. #369
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    This is a short video that might help explain it.

    https://www.desiringgod.org/intervie...-in-gods-image
    I read the accompanying text and I still don't see an answer. I read many varying statements. Some statements are nearly contradictory (morality of God? Was Sodom&Gomorrah and Lott's wife a bit heavy handed off a punishment? There's a plethora of similar acts, too. If man isn't fully moral, it's that make us not in his image, equal to him in morality, or worse than him? Who defines morals when killing is occasionally accepted? )

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    I’ve decided to stop posting because I can see I’m double minded in the sense that my heart goes out to both pregnant female as well as the developing baby. In this climate, my position is untenable.

    One clinic performs 150 procedures per day. Just one! Kermit Gosnell made $12-15k per night performing a legal procedure.

    One crisis pregnancy center night encourage one mother per day to consider their options. They council people who attend church whose daughter is pregnant. Some say they know them it’s wrong, but…

    Anti abortion is not the same as pro life. Pro choice doesn’t mean informed consent.

    If the pandemic taught me anything, it’s that Americans don’t care about anyone but themselves. I blame social media. If you get used to killing babies and neglecting seniors, it’s a slippery slope to disrespecting everyone or anyone. That said, you can’t legislate morally or kindness. It’s a choice we make for ourselves.

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    To be clear then, if the voters in your state approve banning abortion you're good with the will of the people.
    Wyoming voted over 70% for Trump. We have a large population of Republican idiots, an excess of guns and booze, and a state government that's a shoeshine parlor for the energy industry.

    I'm not "good" with that, obviously, but I don't have much influence.

    I was born here. I love the place. The people, not so much.

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Can a hospital get rid of no longer wanted frozen fertilized IVF "clumps" which have existed longer than 15 weeks?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Fertility clinics can (with permission of the donor client(s)).

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Fertility clinics can (with permission of the donor client(s)).
    I should have asked if in any way the end of RvW could prohibit the disposal of frozen embryos.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  17. #375
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    I was a clump of cells once too.
    You still are. . .

    A bigger clump.

  18. #376
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    I was a clump of cells once too.
    You still are. . .

    A bigger clump.
    I'm guessing that everyone who posts here is a big clump of cells... with a multitude of small clumps of cells moving about inside of us.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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  20. #377
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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    I was a clump of cells once too.
    You still are. . .

    A bigger clump.
    I'm guessing that everyone who posts here is a big clump of cells... with a multitude of small clumps of cells moving about inside of us.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Hey, I resemble that remark.

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    Lloyd (June 28th, 2022)

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    Default Re: Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Fertility clinics can (with permission of the donor client(s)).
    I should have asked if in any way the end of RvW could prohibit the disposal of frozen embryos.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Some legislatures have already tried to introduce laws defining the beginning of legal life at conception. I think, so far, those bills have not succeeded. I imagine that more similar bills will be pushed forward, and if they succeed, fertility clinics (that always use multiple fertilized ova), will be in a real legal bind.

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