Should health insurance providers discount those vaxxed?

[TSherbs]

As more variants of Covid spread around the world, and as more and more it becomes clear that there are no geographical or political barriers to the spread of viral epidemics, and as the numbers show how effectively the new vaxes reduce hospitalizations and death, I wonder if health insurance providers will begin to make separate rates and forms of coverage for the vaxxed and unvaxxed. This is already done for life insurance and auto insurance (all sorts of actuarial factors). I am conflicted over this, seeing merits to both sides, but I also have not much really thought about it. I am on the one hand in favor of universal health care, but on the other I have spent the last two nights in the hospital (family) and witnessed first hand the persons laying on beds in hallways because the hospital is now actually over capacity (not all of it is Covid, but most of it is -- info from nurse). The stress on staff is visible on the faces and in their voices, and material resources are being used up more quickly, etc, etc.

As a society, through some decisions and then likely court cases, we may be asked to make some kind of larger decision about this (I'm speculating, of course).

[Chuck Naill]

Discounts for car and heath insurance where good drivers and non smokers has been around for some time. Seems the discounts are hinging on voluntary actions.

[TSherbs]

Or, a kind of surcharge on the choice not to vaccinate.

[Chuck Naill]

Or, a kind of surcharge on the choice not to vaccinate.

Would you agree that unsafe driving and not choosing to quit smoking increased premiums is also a surcharge? I see it more as a risk assessment.

[TSherbs]

Or, a kind of surcharge on the choice not to vaccinate.

Would you agree that unsafe driving and not choosing to quit smoking increased premiums is also a surcharge? I see it more as a risk assessment.

Yes, I mean the same thing.

I just also have a strong sense of universal shared burden for basic health care. So there is that, too.

[Bold2013]

I would favor charging more for HTN, obesity, and diabetes than giving a price break for Covid vaccines (these are the really reason most people with covid die and for the most part are preventable).

[dneal]

I hope this isn't too much of a digression, but I think it's in the same vein.

I'm not necessarily opposed to universal health care. The main problem is the "all you can eat" mentality that may result, and/or the "rationing" problem. I can clarify those if needs be.

The German system (my understanding of it, anyway) is interesting. They pay into their system, and if they maintain their health and don't use the system other than routine exams; they get a rebate. That's a pretty powerful incentive to a German. Their culture encourages good diet and exercise. Weekends (particularly Sundays) are for walking, biking, etc... Cash-rebates probably encourage that.

But, if they don't go to their exams (or treatments) and problems are not caught (or get worse), they can be held responsible for the increased costs to the system.

I don't see that as viable with current U.S. culture. We generally do a poor to horrible job of maintaining health. Just look at our obesity problem (which begs a question on should they pay more...?).

[Chip]

Perhaps relevant. Might refusing vaccination, masking, or other public health measures be a basis for treating a death from COVID as self-inflicted? Insurance companies don't like paying out huge sums in such cases.

"Insurance companies consider deaths from drunk driving to be self-inflicted. Because it is widely known that driving drunk can lead to accidents, causing injuries and potentially death, the logic is that if you get in the car drunk, you know there is a considerable risk that you could die. Insurance companies usually will not pay the benefits if it is determined that the death was self-inflicted. This is to prevent insurance fraud – insurers do not want people to take out significant insurance policies and then intentionally kill themselves so that their beneficiaries will get a large sum of money.

There is some controversy over drunk driving deaths being considered self-inflicted. There have even been lawsuits surrounding this controversy. However, insurance companies maintain that there is enough information available publicly about the risks of drunk driving and that policyholders should know that it is dangerous. They want to do everything they can to deter people from driving drunk, which is essential."

https://www.lifeant.com/faq/will-lif...ause-of-death/

[TSherbs]

Interesting. I never had heard of this reluctance to pay out for drunk driving. Negligence and addiction both seem quite different from a suicide, however.

[Chuck Naill]

Interesting. I never had heard of this reluctance to pay out for drunk driving. Negligence and addiction both seem quite different from a suicide, however.

Agreed. Things have changed regarding addiction. PTSD used to be Shell Shocked or worse. I read where Jimmy Steward suffered. In my community my uncle and another used alcohol. They were looked down upon. Sad given what they saw in war.

[BoBo Olson]

""""Perhaps relevant. Might refusing vaccination, masking, or other public health measures be a basis for treating a death from COVID as self-inflicted? """"

I see it as murder and attempted murder. Jail them.....they do not have the freedom to murder the neighborhood, just because they believe in lies.
The Government is sticking them with little nanno's to find out exactly how often and when in the day the fool goes to Wallmarkt.
One's TV's speakers is a microphone (No BS), so why waste money with super secret nano tec?

We have the same idiots over here and I favor making them pay for their hospitalization. Over here that would get them vaccinated quickly.


Whose paying for hospitalization in the States?....if unemployed? ....and the 1/4th that will need months or even years for recovery treatments.

We pay 13%(6 in a room)-15% (3 in a room)..our choice, matched by the employer for full hospitalization.
Government covers the unemployed, and the half from the retirees.

That is universal health care, no one loses a car, or house due to illness nor has to sell a diamond ring; much less a fountain pen. And there is no sick hours.

The Doctor tells you, you are sick. Stay at home as often as you are sick.**
And if real ill, it will take you 9-12 months to get fired....then you are still covered. Then the social net will cover much....perhaps one might have to move into a smaller 'social' home, than what one had....but the rent is paid, clothing allowance....

** If your boss complains or attempts to fire you, he will be hit by a Angry Doctor and the Doctor's lawyers. Got to remember you do have the Little Gods in White Coats; on your side. Not the bosses...

No food stamps.....
Between unemployment and if so later social net you are not going to miss a meal or have a leaky roof (so one has to drink cheap Aldi beer) .............one of the reasons we have a 19% sales tax. 7% on food.
Also Child money...for all rich or poor... 219 € a month for the first two kids, 225 € for the 3rd. 250 € for the 4th. Up to 18 years old unless a student.
I'm pretty sure many other countries in Europe don't have as high a kindergelt level as Germany.

Oddly, we have just as many millionaires per-head as in the States.

[TSherbs]

We are captive to the myth in the United States that the economy and health care systems will implode if we raise taxes substantially. That's a lie, but it is an entrenched myth here.

[Chip]

We are captive to the myth in the United States that the economy and health care systems will implode if we raise taxes substantially. That's a lie, but it is an entrenched myth here.

Dig, dig, dig! With the corporate lobbyists and the ultra-rich handing out free shovels.

[kazoolaw]

We are captive to the myth in the United States that the economy and health care systems will implode if we raise taxes substantially. That's a lie, but it is an entrenched myth here.

The myth we are captive to is that nobody pays when taxes are increased.

[dneal]

We are captive to the myth in the United States that the economy and health care systems will implode if we raise taxes substantially. That's a lie, but it is an entrenched myth here.

The myth we are captive to is that nobody pays when taxes are increased.

Or that it’s only “the other guy” who pays.

[TSherbs]

We are captive to the myth in the United States that the economy and health care systems will implode if we raise taxes substantially. That's a lie, but it is an entrenched myth here.

The myth we are captive to is that nobody pays when taxes are increased.

I've never heard this claim before. Obviously, people pay. But maybe some folks say this. I sure don't.

[TSherbs]

Or there is this approach: charge extra to the unvaxxed:

CNN: Canada says vaccine mandates work as Quebec's 'unvaxxed tax' leads to spike in first-dose appointments.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/12/ameri...ntl/index.html

[NvMS]

Great observation! I think that over time, medicare companies will come to provide different plans for vaccinated and non-vaccinated. A vaccine isn't a guarantee of safety from Covid. However, vaccinated people easily carry the virus, and don't have complications like other respiratory diseases. But I am glad that so far the insurance companies haven't come to this decision. I use the medicare services of https://ibgportland.com/health-insur...-entrepreneurs for my company's employees and myself. But most of us are already vaccinated. It was a prerequisite for visiting our offices.

[Mık Joger]

When it comes to healthcare, I've discovered various effective strategies. Regular exercise, such as yoga and running, helps me release tension. Additionally, I find solace in practicing mindfulness and deep breathing techniques. However, one of the most valuable resources I've found is connecting with Calmerry online therapists Their expertise and guidance provide me with practical tools to manage stress and build resilience and my healthcare.

[dneal]

David, you're erring yet again. We know this account is you.

tsk, tsk.

Maybe I'll post Leigh's email address and let each person decide what they want to do with it.