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Thread: Darker burgundy

  1. #21
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post

    I do have a bottle of that ink sitting on my desk now in the line up to be used, although at this point I've only dipped it.

    With that said, given that "Ruby" is one of the alternate names(or perhaps in the sometimes less than great translations that come through it's part of the name) I wonder if, in the vein of First Love Sapphire, it's inspired by Penman Ruby. I'll get off my lazy rear end in a little while and pull my swatch cards, but when I made up the one for Clown Tears, even though I was sort of looking for the connection, I feel like it was there. I do have two bottles of Penman Ruby and it really is a lovely ink and is a nice but very interesting and like the other Penman inks is a "deep"(in terms of color variation, not necessarily hue) color. I honestly think that as that goes, Penman Ruby may be the most interesting/complex of the entire line.
    If I were a betting person, I might suggest than when Fred asked for a recommendation of an ink produced by a major manufacturer that is essentially a darker version of Diamine Syrah, he had neither Bungu Box Clown Teardrop nor Parker Penman Ruby in mind but I could easily be wrong. LOL

    Well, looking at my swatch cards and the provided examples, I'd say both are at least equal if not a bit darker.

    I think it's hard to argue that neither are produced by a major manufacturer as well. Penman could be discounted based on availability and current production, but Bungu Box IS made by Sailor, a company I'd consider a major manufacturer by any objective definition.
    I didn't come here to argue. I came to post my opinion.

    While Bungu Box ink is made by Sailor, it's availability isn't on anywhere near the same scale as Sailor inks so it's not really very like an ink produced by a major manufacturer.
    Parker Penman Ruby hasn't been in current production by a major manufacturer for over 20 years so can be discounted based on availability. I've personally seen several examples over my years of inks and fountain pens and although it's quite variable because it's such an old ink, I never saw one darker than Fred's swatch of Syrah.
    Last edited by Chrissy; March 9th, 2022 at 10:01 AM.
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Meant to attach cards to my last post...and it was certainly not my intention to argue but I didn't realize that a single person on here was the arbiter of what is considered a "major brand" ink. Perhaps I should bow out of this thread now, or perhaps participation in this "free and open" site if telling someone they're wrong and then claiming you're "not arguing" when the person attempts to refute your point is considered inappropriate.


    And BTW, Bungu Box inks are available at least in the US from a couple of retailers.

    Also, although I don't have a sample of Syrah in hand, to my eyes the samples I have of Clown Tears and PP Ruby are maybe similar or maybe a shade darker...

    IMG_1230.jpg

    Now I'll cease attempting to assist the OP finding a possible ink...
    Last edited by bunnspecial; December 28th, 2021 at 11:39 AM.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Cool your jets! Thank you bunnspecial for your photo of your cards! I am impressed with your idea of using old Rolodex cards with their top edges painted with ink. I'd love to see a photo of the top of them in the index showing the range of hues. Damn, I think I finally threw out my circular Rolodex and box of blank cards that were languishing in the garage last year!

    Anyway, Chrissy is right on the ink sources I am thinking of. I tend to avoid the boutique brands. On the other hand, up to to years ago before Covid, I saw bottles of Parker Ruby often enough at prices not much more than modern ink. Now I'll actually buy one...given the chance.

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Cool your jets! Thank you bunnspecial for your photo of your cards! I am impressed with your idea of using old Rolodex cards with their top edges painted with ink. I'd love to see a photo of the top of them in the index showing the range of hues. Damn, I think I finally threw out my circular Rolodex and box of blank cards that were languishing in the garage last year!
    Sorry, but I did NOT take kindly to the tone of that response, but anyway I'm glad you found that helpful and hope that maybe it showed you something even if that leads you to Ruby. I'll get a photo of the whole thing. Every ink I own, with the exception of one or two recently acquired ones, are in there(maybe I should do those cards today...I did a few earlier but forgot about those bottles), so I also have something of a "catalog" of inks I have. There's a bit of a method to my madness as within a given color, I tend to organize the cards from lightest to darkest. That can get tricky as I get into situations where I have trouble, just for example, deciding if I consider an ink a dark blue or a lighter blue black. Burgundy ALMOST deserves its own category, except that as you can see(and this was just a selection of what I have in that category) where in there do I draw the line?

    As for the cards-they come from the same source as the Col-O-Ring and are made from the same card stock. They're a bit more expensive that Col-O-Rings-maybe $15 or so for 100 rather than $9(IIRC from the pricing). I bought an unused Rolodex on Ebay specifically for this. The cards that came with it were okay, but the Col-O-Dex cards are much better and soak up ink a lot more nicely.

    Also, just as a side note on how I make these cards-the first step is to either take a pen inked with the ink(preferably) or if not, use a glass dip pen and write the name of the ink and maybe a comment about it in the center of the card. I've evolved a bit as I use to use a steel dip pen, but find that glass plays a bit more consistently with FP ink. I then write the pen used in the lower left, and usually make a few scribbles with ink left on the pen. With that said, I try to leave some space on the left as I will generally go back and write on the card when I do ink a pen with that ink. The rest is done with a Q-tip. I clean up the dip pen with one and use ink there to start "painting" the top. I then get the swab absolutely dripping with ink and plant it HARD on the right side to squeeze out a blob of ink. This first spot will hopefully show me any potential sheen the ink is capable of, or if not sheen it will show me probably the darkest color the ink is capable of making. I then continue dotting and as the ink runs out, I see the range of colors possible from shading. Finally, I go back and swab the top again, which gives a bit truer of a representation of the color.

    As far as these inks go, I know I'm venturing off into what could also be a boutique ink, but give Scribe Garnet a look also. The Scribe inks are made and sold by Dr. Leyton Davies-Smith, who held the title of "Ink Chemist" at Parker/Newell brands and developed the Penman inks. The Scribe inks, which he sells directly but you can also get from Anderson Pens, are his "recreation" of Penman inks and they're some of the closest I've seen although he seems to have toned down the saturation a bit to presumably make them behave a bit better. As I'm also a chemist and of course have an interest in ink chemistry, Leyton was gracious enough back in the spring to spend an hour on Zoom with me and we discussed a lot about ink chemistry and these inks. Even though they are a boutique product, I feel comfortable that they can be used in most anything safely...especially considering that he is actually educated as a chemist and has a background in formulating ink for a major brand.

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  9. #25
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    I tend to avoid the boutique brands. On the other hand, up to to years ago before Covid, I saw bottles of Parker Ruby often enough at prices not much more than modern ink. Now I'll actually buy one...given the chance.
    Maybe you should also consider the Scribe version as it's a very nice ink and they will all darken to quite like the original colours during the time your pens are filled with them. PP Ruby doesn't always come up as the colour you might expect because like many aged reds there can be a colour shift depending on how it's been kept for the past 20 years. Very much like actual Syrah wine I might say

    Birmingham Inks are probably not what you might call a major manufacturer either but I agree with DrPenfection they are well worth a try. I wish we could get them in the UK.....
    Last edited by Chrissy; December 28th, 2021 at 11:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    Meant to attach cards to my last post...and it was certainly not my intention to argue but I didn't realize that a single person on here was the arbiter of what is considered a "major brand" ink. Perhaps I should bow out of this thread now, or perhaps participation in this "free and open" site if telling someone they're wrong and then claiming you're "not arguing" when the person attempts to refute your point is considered inappropriate.


    And BTW, Bungu Box inks are available at least in the US from a couple of retailers.

    Also, although I don't have a sample of Syrah in hand, to my eyes the samples I have of Clown Tears and PP Ruby are maybe similar or maybe a shade darker...

    IMG_1230.jpg

    Now I'll cease attempting to assist the OP finding a possible ink...
    I've seen Clown Tears in a pen pal's letter, and coveted it. I think it had great shading, too. I wonder how it compares with Oku-Yama.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Cool your jets! Thank you bunnspecial for your photo of your cards! I am impressed with your idea of using old Rolodex cards with their top edges painted with ink. I'd love to see a photo of the top of them in the index showing the range of hues. Damn, I think I finally threw out my circular Rolodex and box of blank cards that were languishing in the garage last year!

    Anyway, Chrissy is right on the ink sources I am thinking of. I tend to avoid the boutique brands. On the other hand, up to to years ago before Covid, I saw bottles of Parker Ruby often enough at prices not much more than modern ink. Now I'll actually buy one...given the chance.
    Okay, here's the promised photo of the Col-o-dex. I haven't counted recently but I think there are about 160 cards in here(and yes, I do have a bottle corresponding to each of those, not just a sample vial). The blue section is the largest since I have an unhealthy obsession with blue in, and also partially my constant attempt to find the next Penman Sapphire replacement(never mind that I have...well...a couple of bottles of it including two unopened and two mostly full so finding a replacement is a bit of an academic exercise).

    IMG_1232.jpg

    Also, I'm just curious as to how you're defining a boutique brand? At least when I think of the term my mind goes to the stereotypical brands that I feel like sort of defined the term-namely Noodlers and Private Reserve-small batch, privately made inks that tend to have properties that aren't that common in mainstream brands(be it high saturation, very wet writing, extreme permanence, or just wacky colors no one else makes, although I realize there are inks from the big brands that can do all of those) and from brands that either don't make pens or don't have pens as a primary part of their business. Of course PR is now part of a big conglomerate, many makers now make "premium" inks that can add all of the above properties, and of course Noodler's makes(or at least sells) pens. There are other brands though that are definitely in the boutique category to me, though, even if they might otherwise be fairly tame inks. Robert Oster and KWZ come to mind.

    BunguBox is an interesting one since they are a store-exclusive brand, but one that's popular enough that now they can be bought from stateside retailers, although they are expensive and it can be hit or miss as to whether or not any particular color is popular at a given time. I know I could not find First Love Sapphire stateside and in a moment of weakness paid kind of a nutty price on Ebay for one of the little 30mL shoes.

    Still, though, it's made by a pen company, and there are plenty of examples of store-exclusive inks from other big brands. Diamine makes several, and their ink also sometimes gets rebottled(Akkerman).

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    ...I'm just curious as to how you're defining a boutique brand?...
    Inks that haven't been made on a large scale for an appreciable length of time.

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Is J Herbin still making Larmes de Cassis? I'm taking out a few burgundy-ish inks to test before I load a pen. I only have it in carts, though. Better go find a review.
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Fred, some friends at the Lone Star Pen club use Col-o-dex Rotary Cards from Vanness and they always speak very highly of them.
    I found this link that talks about and reviews them in case you're interested enough to investigate further.
    Last edited by Chrissy; December 29th, 2021 at 12:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    .....partially my constant attempt to find the next Penman Sapphire replacement(never mind that I have...well...a couple of bottles of it including two unopened and two mostly full so finding a replacement is a bit of an academic exercise).
    That's a really simple exercise: make it yourself. Many have done so.
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    .....partially my constant attempt to find the next Penman Sapphire replacement(never mind that I have...well...a couple of bottles of it including two unopened and two mostly full so finding a replacement is a bit of an academic exercise).
    That's a really simple exercise: make it yourself. Many have done so.
    Iím not opposed to that, but Iíd like to take a bit more of a scientific approach and actually figure out what all is in it. I didnít think to ask Leighton when I talked to him, although I suspect he may not be able to discuss specifics. He did give me some information on what fungicides and surfactants Parker was using then.

    I have a grant out now that I should hear from by March for the purchase of two mass spectrometers. Of course the grant proposal is for something unrelated(microcontaminants in river water) but I canít promise that a few ink samples wonít make it in. Unfortunately, the one less likely to get funded will be more useful for things like dyes, although this specific one is better suited to looking for known analyses than identifying completed unknowns.

    In the meantime, though, buying, testing, and experimenting with ink gives me a tremendous amount of enjoyment and is a big part of the hobby for me. With inks like Penman, even though I have a lot of it(except emeraldÖonly about 15mlÖ) I still get a lot of enjoyment out of being able to advise on substitutes. So far Scribe Indigo wins, but Iím rather fond of DC Supershow also.

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    BTW, if one wants Col-o-dex cards Iíd encourage purchasing directly from The Well Appointed desk, who makes them. No affiliation, but I like cutting out middle men when I can with the small businesses in our hobby.

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Still looking, as my stained fingers can attest. JH Cassis is now loaded, but it is like a pale red-violet. I also have Kobe Burgundy in another pen. That's a little closer, but I may have to mix my own. It needs to shade!
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Still looking, as my stained fingers can attest. JH Cassis is now loaded, but it is like a pale red-violet. I also have Kobe Burgundy in another pen. That's a little closer, but I may have to mix my own. It needs to shade!
    When you've made it you could call it Sailor Burgundy. Quite catchy.
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    ...
    I have a grant out now that I should hear from by March for the purchase of two mass spectrometers. Of course the grant proposal is for something unrelated(microcontaminants in river water) but I canít promise that a few ink samples wonít make it in. Unfortunately, the one less likely to get funded will be more useful for things like dyes, although this specific one is better suited to looking for known analyses than identifying completed unknowns .
    Very cool! Good luck with those.

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Still looking, as my stained fingers can attest. JH Cassis is now loaded, but it is like a pale red-violet. I also have Kobe Burgundy in another pen. That's a little closer, but I may have to mix my own. It needs to shade!
    When you've made it you could call it Sailor Burgundy. Quite catchy.
    Thanks! I will!

    (But, whoops, my mistake, the Kobe ink called Bordeaux.). 🙀
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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Iím in Bertramís Inkwell at the moment and taking home a bottle of Syrah.

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    In my experience Syrah doesn't shade.
    Nor does Writers Blood or Merlot

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    Default Re: Darker burgundy

    Private Reserve Dark Cherry might work, if you're still looking.

    de Atramentis Black-Red is nice, but a little on the purple side for my taste.

    My favorite burgundy is KWZ Standard Maroon 2, but it might be a little brighter than you want, and a little harder to find perhaps.

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