Does Bad Taste Sell Pens?

[adhoc]

LOL!

A gentleman of supreme confidence.

He is extraordinarily bright, sufficiently so that he cares not what anyone thinks of him. I personally would be delighted to have this particular pen and would feel no embarrassment whatsoever using it.

I was not questioning the person's intelligence or confidence, but rather taste. I also do not believe "he does not care what anyone thinks of him", because that's impossible with a pen like this. This pen is made to draw attention, and people that demand other peoples' attention are precisely the people that do care what others think of them.

You assume he uses them in public.

I didn't assume that, you yourself said he has the confidence to use such pens and not care what others think of him...doesn't matter. I'm happy he enjoys his pens for him.

[Yazeh]

And don't forget... "bad tastes" for one is good taste for another.
Gaudy for someone is breathtaking for another.

And it could be geographical/ cultural and historical.
The extreme would be rococo art compared to austere art.... you've got your answer....

Of course, taste is completely subjective, and I find the pen gaudy completely in my opinion, which I also stated. I don't think less of people that like things I don't, I have a feeling that was not entirely understood from my post, considering some of the replies.

No it wasn't. It was lost in translation
There was a French comedy, called the Taste of others... and enjoys poking fun at everyone....the "tasteful" and "tasteless"

[adhoc]

Sorry, don't know it.

If anything, honestly, I wish I'd understand what people like. There's a lot of money to be made with that knowledge!

[Scrawler]

LOL!

A gentleman of supreme confidence.

He is extraordinarily bright, sufficiently so that he cares not what anyone thinks of him. I personally would be delighted to have this particular pen and would feel no embarrassment whatsoever using it.

I was not questioning the person's intelligence or confidence, but rather taste. I also do not believe "he does not care what anyone thinks of him", because that's impossible with a pen like this. This pen is made to draw attention, and people that demand other peoples' attention are precisely the people that do care what others think of them.

You assume he uses them in public.

I didn't assume that, you yourself said he has the confidence to use such pens and not care what others think of him...doesn't matter. I'm happy he enjoys his pens for him.

Read properly before projecting your proclivities on others. I did not say that. Many of us are quite happy to own and appreciate art for its own sake and not for the approbation of others.

[Yazeh]

Tower of Babel

[FredRydr]

Reminiscent of Jon's reply about people wanting BIG pens.

[Jon Szanto]

Reminiscent of Jon's reply about people wanting BIG pens.

I almost killed myself, when I was a kid, on the back end of one of those cars. I was going hellbent-for-leather down a hill on my bike, hits some water and lost control. I flew off the bike and smacked into the trunk of the car, with the fin grazing the right side of my neck. Inch or two to the right and it would have been very serious, indeed. Bruises for weeks.

[Chip]

If you see pens first as writing instruments, then those qualities (smooth nib, good ink flow, pleasant diameter and balance, etc.) will inform your choices.

If pens are talismans, mementos, or souvenirs, you value them for their associations. Both my father and my maternal grandfather loved Sheaffer pens, so when I take one in hand I see more than a pen: memories, a bit of heritage.

If you regard pens as emblems, to display your wealth or taste or status or attitude, you might choose one for its conspicuous presence, calculated to draw attention.

I incline to the first and second views, and would rather not use a pen (especially at a meeting, etc.) that draws attention away from the substance. Which makes me uncomfortable, like having someone comment on my clothing. I have only one pen in that category (a gift), not expensive but rather flash:

[FredRydr]

I almost killed myself, when I was a kid, on the back end....

I can see that happening with one of those Montblanc special editions (photos above).

[TFarnon]

My grampa had a car like that when cars like that were brand new. It was cream colored, with cream colored upholstery, perfect for hot Sacramento summers. And it had air conditioning. Going for a ride with Grampa to Baskin-Robbins to get a sugar cone with a scoop of rocky road ice cream was the Best Thing Ever.

[amk]

When I have interviews to do for an article or book, I often take a nice gaudy pen with me - Laban mento, m600 white torty, 3776 lilas for instance. It becomes a nice little icebreaker.

Oh yes, I'm Old Skool: I write things down instead of using a recording device (or as well as). That's a talking point in itself!

[FredRydr]

...Oh yes, I'm Old Skool: I write things down instead of using a recording device (or as well as). That's a talking point in itself!

It is? Goodness, what is the world coming to such that taking notes is an unusual thing? Recordings require listening to the same thing all over again (I haven't the time!), while note-taking is the essence of memorializing the important bits.

[alexwi]

When I have interviews to do for an article or book, I often take a nice gaudy pen with me - Laban mento, m600 white torty, 3776 lilas for instance. It becomes a nice little icebreaker.

A very smart idea, indeed.

alex

[Pendragon]

That may be the worst thing I've ever seen.

Those are horrendous.....

And yea, taste is personal and individual. Well aware of that. How else to explain the many thousands of dollars that people drop on the clown pens from David Oscarson?

The tastes of the mass market often differs from those of enthusiast communities. That applies to esthetics, features, functionality, etc. Bad taste does not sell products. As noted above, what defines bad taste varies among individuals. Mass market segments are far larger than any hobbyist community, so that is what many vendors will target. Thankfully, there are plenty of fountain pen buyers in the general public who value elegance and understatement over blingtastic showiness. They are also a valued target market.

The last time I checked, which was many moons ago, fountain pen enthusiasts almost universally detested uber-flashy, over the top pens. Perhaps that has changed over time?

[Jon Szanto]

The last time I checked, which was many moons ago, fountain pen enthusiasts almost universally detested uber-flashy, over the top pens. Perhaps that has changed over time?

I believe it has. I certainly frequent a couple of different, very active groups of fp fans, and the pens you describe are not only *not* shunned, but often sought.

[Pendragon]

Oh wow, that is a sea change. Then again, the online fountain pen revival started 20 years ago. There have been many new people who have joined in over the years. Perhaps it should be expected that norms, trends, and the general online pen culture will change over time.

Maybe some of the bling fans are affiliated with one or more vendors or retailers? I remember in times past there was a LOT of astroturfing going on.

[Jon Szanto]

Oh wow, that is a sea change. Then again, the online fountain pen revival started 20 years ago. There have been many new people who have joined in over the years. Perhaps it should be expected that norms, trends, and the general online pen culture will change over time.

Maybe some of the bling fans are affiliated with one or more vendors or retailers? I remember in times past there was a LOT of astroturfing going on.

To the 2nd remark, there is a lot of brand loyalty these days to some of the smaller makers. US company Franklin-Christoph has a 'club' for people who have purchased 50 of their pens (yes, you read that correctly). Others are constantly chasing the latest remarkable (the polite word) for new custom acrylic pours by Jonathon Brooks and Bub Dupras, either through the myriad of new bespoke penturners, or new brands such as Leonardo Officina Italizna, who seem to come out with new pens (of new materials) almost monthly. I know people who make a point to get one of each, and these are not cheap pens.

My pen collection is likely 2/3 vintage and 1/3 modern, but I do keep abreast of what is going on now. The fact of the matter (IMO) is that if the 30s-40s (or thereabouts) can be rightly called the "Golden Era" of fountain pens, the minor explosion in penmaking and the related articles (like a zillion new inks) over the last 5-10 years may see this as a 2nd "Golden Era". There is an awful lot of crap, but there are also some remarkable pens being made. For younger people and people new to fps, many don't even consider vintage: fountain pens are here and now, for the taking.

[alexwi]

[QUOTE=Jon Szanto;350590]

...The fact of the matter (IMO) is that if the 30s-40s (or thereabouts) can be rightly called the "Golden Era" of fountain pens, the minor explosion in penmaking and the related articles (like a zillion new inks) over the last 5-10 years may see this as a 2nd "Golden Era". There is an awful lot of crap, but there are also some remarkable pens being made. For younger people and people new to fps, many don't even consider vintage: fountain pens are here and now, for the taking.

I learned to write in the golden era of the ballpoint. Assuming that the golden era of the fountain pen was similar, my guess is that people viewed these instruments as utilitarian objects, and those who were able to afford it went for more expensive ones, which back then were limited to gold-plated, discretely bejeweled, and/or perhaps equipped with gold nibs. In the sixth grade a class-mate gave me a Cross ballpoint, which seemed pretty to me, but nothing else (I guess it was gold plated). I recall finding it odd that my father was quite impressed by it since it was just a pen.

My mom, however, was exceptional with regard to aesthetics. Unlike my dad, who had several ballpoints and mechanical pencils (including a vermeil Parker 75 pencil and ballpoint set), she only had - and would always carry - what must've been a Parker Jotter, which she replaced with an Aurora Thesi which looked like something from the future.

The 1980's, with the advent of disposable everything were a disgrace from a design perspective (and from a few others as well), and now we're seeing many brands reinventing themselves as status symbols or as purveyors of products that cater to customers who want something a step or two up from disposables. Before disposables, people had no option other than buying refillable writing instruments if they needed to write with ink.

Nowadays, at best, some people will go for a Pilot G2 or something like that instead of a BIC-like pen, but that's not the majority. The majority doesn't care one iota, probably because BICs are all they know and can't imagine that different writing instruments result in different writing experiences. I've come to believe that most people just don't make that connection in their brains.

Back to the 70's... my dad rotated his pens (I'd say he had about 8), but being ballpoints the writing experience must've been pretty uniform across the lot, with only slight variations in friction between brands and grip from model to model, so he probably picked one or another on a whim. With regard to fountain pens in the 30's and 40's my guess is that, in addition to this, nib characteristics also played a role.

I think it was more like what picking one's clothes in the morning is for us.

The combination of the above and the fact that these non-disposable and not-so-uniform products were mostly utilitarian leads me to think that collecting is a modern phenomenon. I also believe that while this is probably a 2nd golden era for fountain pens, if you count the 60's - 80's, it's probably a 3rd one for writing instruments.

alex

[Parsimonious]

Here's a bargain for you if you want a tasteful pen.

[Bisquitlips]

I get catalogs from a couple pen retailers and have noticed that mid-to-high priced pens seem to be getting uglier, more garish, and less like writing tools. One resembled a spaceship. Others feature excess decoration, scary colors, glitter, etc. I hesitate to post examples that might offend those who've bought the pens in question. So I'll pose this as a rather vague impression.

Not sure about bad taste selling pens, but I have noticed that the more money some people have the less taste they maintain. Maybe that's the issue, but it's just my observation.