Page 3 of 62 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 1224

Thread: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

  1. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    I was never taught the real reason for the Alamo. My teachers are to blame

  2. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,655
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,417 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I was never taught the real reason for the Alamo. My teachers are to blame
    Their culture (parents, schools, churches, news outlets) likely hid the truth from them, too.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    Chuck Naill (January 10th, 2022)

  4. #43
    Senior Member manoeuver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Near Midwest, US
    Posts
    1,584
    Thanks
    1,221
    Thanked 1,069 Times in 548 Posts
    Rep Power
    15

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Andrew Jackson was one of the worse inflator of pain and misery. Jan 6th is Trump’s burden to bear. I just don’t like the “what about this” posts regarding Black Lives Matter protest being suggested as something similar. They were not trying to overturn a loss.
    No. Why is it typical of a Trump hater to refuse to compare 1/6 with BLM, then turn around and compare it to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor?
    I know you're not doing this exactly, but it was a theme at the Democratic circle jerk around Dick Cheney of all people.
    It's a demand for Doublethink. I'm not buying it.

    Were they sore losers? Of course. But people are here saying a 3 hour riot was worse than the 4-year Russiagate hoax. That's garbage.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to manoeuver For This Useful Post:

    Beowulf50 (January 9th, 2022), dneal (January 8th, 2022)

  6. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by manoeuver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Andrew Jackson was one of the worse inflator of pain and misery. Jan 6th is Trump’s burden to bear. I just don’t like the “what about this” posts regarding Black Lives Matter protest being suggested as something similar. They were not trying to overturn a loss.
    No. Why is it typical of a Trump hater to refuse to compare 1/6 with BLM, then turn around and compare it to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor?
    I know you're not doing this exactly, but it was a theme at the Democratic circle jerk around Dick Cheney of all people.
    It's a demand for Doublethink. I'm not buying it.

    Were they sore losers? Of course. But people are here saying a 3 hour riot was worse than the 4-year Russiagate hoax. That's garbage.
    The Black Lives Matter movement is not to overturn the will of the American people in a presidental election. If you want to discuss black history in the US, start a thread. I will meet you there. There is much to know and understand.

    What makes January 6 important is that it was something Donald Trump as a sitting president encouraged. If you question, read the transcript. If you have read the transcript and you don't think he did, I need to know why.

    I do not like Donald Trump, but I do not hate him. If he had a life change, I would be very pleased. That said, making excuses for his actions and words in not somthing for which I will participate.

  7. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,655
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,417 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Manoeuver, Dems were of course "sore" after losing in 2016. That is natural. No one wants to lose, and it is particularly so when in American presidential elections, the national vote goes one way, but the EC vote goes the other. But HC conceded, and there was no attempt to contravert the transfer of power to the next president. There was no massive legal or extra-legal campaign to spread lies about the election results. There were no rallies, no efforts to block or impede the process of certifying the results and then accepting those results on the Senate floor. There was no rally outside the Capitol bldg with the aim of contraverting the process of installing DT as the next president.

    You seem to be suggesting that the as usual effort to impede the efforts of one party in control of the White House by the party out of control (this is always the case) is somehow equivalent or even worse than storming the capital to deny the result of a national election from having it's legal result, simply because it took less time. The riot may have been three hours but the effort to deny the results of the election began the day that DT stated to the world that he would accept the results of the election "only if I win." He flew the flag months earlier about what his priorities were and started lying daily about how the election was "rigged." Jan 6 was no "3-hour" event as such; it was the culmination of years of lying and manipulation of a gullible public. Take, for example, the birther lying. That goes back years and marks am early phase of Trump's dumping of bullshit into the whirling fans of the media where it was amplified and then spread around the internet. There was not a shred of truth to it, but the lie stoked racism and anti-Islam sentiment around the country. Trump learned early the power that a lie can have in provoking people susceptible to conspiracy theories to energize. He has not changed an iota since.

    If your claim is that the investigation into the Trump admin ties to Russia is tantamount to the same, or worse, level of lie, then that can be another analysis. Go for it. I, personally, thought that the impeachment trial (first one) was weak and a waste of time. But not the second one. Unfortunately, impeachment had been weaponized in practice (since Bill Clinton). But that is far different from entering the Capitol with weapons. I agree with you about "treason" and "insurrection" etc. The link that I posted used the term in comedy. I've never, in serious, called the actions an attempt at coup.
    Last edited by TSherbs; January 9th, 2022 at 10:43 AM. Reason: grammar, autocorrect

  8. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,655
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,417 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    This might be a first step in trying to de-fang the battle over the counting of electoral votes:

    NPR: What is the Electoral Count Act?.
    https://www.npr.org/2022/01/08/10712...-another-jan-6

  9. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,655
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,417 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Here's another set of suggestions for reform, from the Center for American Progress:

    https://www.americanprogress.org/art...can-democracy/

  10. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Popular vote should rule. Gerrymandering should be illegal. If you're going to have a democracy, have a democracy. Having to even go through the process of former slave and women's voting rights is beyond being able to defend.

  11. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,655
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,417 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Popular vote should rule.
    This would require a Constitutional amendment.

  12. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Popular vote should rule.
    This would require a Constitutional amendment.
    So be it. We are at a place where someone is winning and not getting the popular vote. It is how we got DT.
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; January 9th, 2022 at 11:05 AM.

  13. #51
    Senior Member Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    215
    Thanks
    191
    Thanked 200 Times in 122 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    "Capitol Insurrection" is to January 6 what "murder hornets" are to giant hornets - media hyperbole. Fearmongering keeps the public glued to the media outlets. The events of a year ago were simply a riot at the Capitol building. Asian giant hornets are actually less dangerous than Africanized honeybees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Popular vote should rule.
    It already does, and has done so for nearly 250 years. The problem comes when our fearless leaders, or wannabe fearless leaders, try to discredit an election if lose. This started with Hillary's team and the 2016 election. Claiming that the Russians jacked the election implied that the results were invalid. If the election was invalid, then of course their should be a new election. Best two out of three elections anyone? That opened up a huge can of worms, and leads people to discredit the outcome of any election where their side did not win. Look at what happened four years later. Sure, the Republicans may have piled the dynamite onto the truck, but the Democrats lit the fuse four years earlier.

    Both parties take a legitimate election process and try to game it. The Commission on Presidential Elections, run by the Democratic and Republican parties, sets up debate rules designed to exclude third-party candidates. Combine that with the my-way-or-the-highway attitudes they have instilled in the voters, and the result is kryptonite to democracy.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Pendragon For This Useful Post:

    dneal (January 10th, 2022)

  15. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,655
    Thanks
    2,026
    Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,417 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Popular vote should rule.
    This would require a Constitutional amendment.
    So be it. We are at a place where someone is winning and not getting the popular vote. It is how we got DT.
    Biden won both the popular vote and the Electoral College.

    But yes, if this kind of split that happened with Bush and Trump continues to occur in greater frequency, then there will be increased pressure to change the system. But an amendment would take a large amount of bipartisan political will, and some time.

    When was the last time the GOP won the popular vote for president?

    Answer: only once in the last 34 years (2004)
    Last edited by TSherbs; January 10th, 2022 at 05:30 AM.

  16. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Popular vote should rule.
    This would require a Constitutional amendment.
    So be it. We are at a place where someone is winning and not getting the popular vote. It is how we got DT.
    Biden won both the popular vote and the Electoral College.

    But yes, if this kind of split that happened with Bush and Trump continues to occur in greater frequency, then there will be increased pressure to change the system. But an amendment would take a large amount of bipartisan political will, and some time.

    When was the last time the GOP won the popular vote for president?

    Answer: only once in the last 34 years (2004)
    I didn't realize that about Republican not receiving the popular vote.

    I was reminded of Lincoln's words which have surely not come to pass. "
    "that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom --
    and that government
    OF the PEOPLE,
    BY the PEOPLE,
    FOR the PEOPLE,
    shall not perish from the earth."
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; January 10th, 2022 at 06:42 AM.

  17. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    This started with Hillary's team and the 2016 election. Claiming that the Russians jacked the election implied that the results were invalid. If the election was invalid
    Clinton won the popular vote, @Pendragon, by 2.9 million votes.
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; January 10th, 2022 at 06:47 AM.

  18. #55
    Senior Member manoeuver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Near Midwest, US
    Posts
    1,584
    Thanks
    1,221
    Thanked 1,069 Times in 548 Posts
    Rep Power
    15

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Popular vote should rule.
    Absolutely not. The States elect the President. This is an essential check on the power of the presidency.

    but that's a discussion for another time.

    Chuck, I think we disagree about the motivations and causes of the Jan 6 debacle.
    I think it was more about demanding transparency in our elections, I don't believe many folks involved thought they'd actually overturn the result of the election, (if they did they were of course very stupid.)

    The trespassing and violence seem to be at least in part (if not wholly, which is also plausible) provoked by bad actors with the intent to discredit Trump and open the door for persecuting those who supported him.
    This line of thinking is totally in line with the FBI's MO regarding the Whitmer kidnapping plot and their approach to Islamic terrorism after 9/11.

    The people with the motivation to obfuscate those motives and tactics also currently hold the power to do so.

    I think I'm going to duck out of this fraught conversation at this time, I appreciate the grown-up tone folks have maintained.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to manoeuver For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (January 10th, 2022)

  20. #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    [QUOTE=manoeuver;350605]
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post

    I think I'm going to duck out of this fraught conversation at this time, I appreciate the grown-up tone folks have maintained.
    Sounds good. Please come back if you want to engage. This is a transcript of the former presidents speech on January 6, 2021.
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; January 10th, 2022 at 08:18 AM.

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chuck Naill For This Useful Post:

    manoeuver (January 10th, 2022), TSherbs (January 10th, 2022)

  22. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Good for GOP Senator Mike Rounds.

  23. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th


  24. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,603
    Thanks
    133
    Thanked 584 Times in 427 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Why is William Evans' death related to January 6?

  25. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 896 Times in 688 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    ? No idea

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •