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Thread: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

  1. #61
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Was the "stop the steal" attack on the Capitol an "insurrection"? From the evidence, it seems more like a last-ditch attempt to stop the US Congress from counting the Electoral Votes that were to make Joe Biden President, rather than Donald Trump. It was an attempt to stop the normal operation under the US Constitution by which Americans change Presidents. The mob attempted to overthrow the Constitution. That makes it treason. (And, yes, I was a history major long, long ago, and I know that few people except for spies have been convicted of treason.)
    Sorry not to get back sooner.

    No, Trump was not guilty of insurrection: he was acquitted of that claim in his second impeachment trial.

    Who said this: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court." Yup, that pesky Constitution. No "levying war."

    We don't get to make up our own definitions as we go along. That's a good thing for both sides.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Why is William Evans' death related to January 6?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    ? No idea
    Capitol police officer William Evans was killed April 2, 2021 in the car attack which injured another officer. The driver brandished a knife, and was shot and killed. You can research the driver's ties to radical groups. You can also decide whether the attempts by Biden, Harris, and other politicians, was an attempt to inflate the effect of Janurary 6, 2021.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    January 6 2020 occrured. Trump’s speech transcript is readily available.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Well, there ya go: sedition charges

    NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth: Two North Texas ‘Oath Keepers' Charged With Seditious Conspiracy in Jan. 6 Attack.

    https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/tw...gress/2858086/

  5. #65
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    I sort of feel for these people being charged and convicted. They thought they were following the right person. There is no way, surely, they knew the historcial Trump. At least Hitler fought in WW1.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    From Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/a-b...92k4EbSdCg6GeM


    'A bloody and desperate fight:' U.S. prosecutors release Oath Keepers' communications
    Reuters

    Jan 13 (Reuters) - Here are excerpts of communications that Stewart Rhodes, founder of the far-right Oath Keepers militia, had with his allies in the run-up to and after the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, according to prosecutors, who on Thursday charged him and 10 alleged members of the group with seditious conspiracy.

    NOVEMBER 2020

    The indictment says Rhodes, of Granbury, Texas, started disseminating messages on encrypted applications to his followers in November 2020, encouraging them to "oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power."

    On Nov. 5, two days after the election, he sent a message on the Signal message service that read: "We aren't getting through this without a civil war. Too late for that. Prepare your mind body, spirit."

    DECEMBER 2020

    On Dec. 11, Rhodes sent a message to an invitation-only group chat on Signal, telling them that if Democrat Joe Biden took over the presidency "it will be a bloody and desperate fight. We are going to have a fight. That can't be avoided.'



    On Christmas Day, Rhodes wrote that Congress would likely "screw" then-President Donald Trump over and the only chance he has is if "we scare the shit out of them and convince them it will be torches and pitchforks..."

    JAN. 6, 2021

    Just before 1:30 p.m. on the day of the attack Rhodes told people in the Signal chat: Vice President Mike "Pence is doing nothing. As I predicted."

    He added: "All I see Trump doing is complaining. I see no intent by him to do anything. So the patriots are taking it into their own hands. They've had enough."

    Rhodes told people that those who gathered at the Capitol were not members of antifa, the loosely organized anti-fascism movement. Asked by an associate who was in the mobs storming the Capitol, Rhodes replied: "Actual Patriots. Pissed off patriots. Like the Sons of Liberty were pissed off patriots."
    Again, the indictment says that they attempted to "oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power." I call it "treason", since it was an attempt to overthrow by force a key piece of the Constitution. That's my private grumble, as I said earlier. Not a legal opinion.

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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    What the fuck did that guy think he was doing? Anyway, they are in some deep legal doodoo now, even though sedition is so rarely charged.

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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    I heard the prosecutors were wanting to make that particular indictment. Will it be hard to prove? Will they use as a defense that the former President had told them what to do? If so, can Trump be then legally indicted? I've read often you go after the underling first.

    And Kevin McCarthy isn't going to testify. It is a big mess, but justice needs to occur.

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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    My guess is that they'll go for the "metaphor" and "rhetoric" defense: it was never meant literally, it's just the rhetoric of wack job losers on the internet who then ended up in DC storming the barricaded doors of the Capitol seeking out the chamber where one of the most important processes of democracy was taking place in order to prevent it.

    Oh wait. That might fall under the definition of sedition.

    Oops.

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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Well, there ya go: sedition charges

    NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth: Two North Texas ‘Oath Keepers' Charged With Seditious Conspiracy in Jan. 6 Attack.

    https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/tw...gress/2858086/
    Appreciated the attempt of the cited item to put some perspective into the story by noting the sedition charges in Michigan several years ago were dismissed. Ther was also a Fort Smith case in which defendants were found not guilty.
    It also points out a successful sedition prosecution when people attacked the Capital and actually shot several House representatives. I don't recall any gunshots on 1/6 from anyone but a police officer. Am I remembering wrong?

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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Again, the indictment says that they attempted to "oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power." I call it "treason", since it was an attempt to overthrow by force a key piece of the Constitution. That's my private grumble, as I said earlier. Not a legal opinion.
    Thank you for your clarification of the actual definition of treason and your opinion.
    Particularly when crimes with specific definitions are involved it's important to understand what is and what is not involved. "Sedition" is serious enough without attaching it to the emotional impact of "treason."

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to kazoolaw For This Useful Post:

    welch (January 16th, 2022)

  13. #72
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Treason was a term Trump used against Milley.

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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Like a wise guy said, "We don't get to make up our own definitions as we go along. That's a good thing for both sides."

  15. #74
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Who said it?

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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    >blush< See, Post 61.

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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    My guess is that they'll go for the "metaphor" and "rhetoric" defense: it was never meant literally, it's just the rhetoric of wack job losers on the internet who then ended up in DC storming the barricaded doors of the Capitol seeking out the chamber where one of the most important processes of democracy was taking place in order to prevent it.

    Oh wait. That might fall under the definition of sedition.

    Oops.
    Allegedly, we can add to this a plan to take over the Capitol and then bring in more people and the guns the next day (they have the evidence of the weapons and the recordings and messages re the plan).

  18. #77
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    So I suppose we should also be discussing January 7, 2021. 🤔

  19. #78
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    Default Re: I Guess it's Time to Discuss January 6th

    We'll learn some more, I suppose:

    Yahoo News: Supreme Court allows Jan. 6 committee to get Trump documents.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-c...231723227.html

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