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Thread: Christian Nationaism

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    Default Christian Nationaism

    The embrace of Donald Trump by Evangelicals took me by surprise nearly six years ago. What so called national religious leaders have said for me is shocking. I recall Abraham Lincoln musing that both sides in the Civil War thought God was on their side.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/o...smid=url-share

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Trump evangelicals and true biblical Christians are being conflated in this article.

    Churches were unconstitutionally told not to meet. Some pastors were even prosecuted or harassed (others thrown into prison in Canada). These churches/men fought in the right and biblical ways (as oppose to the Trump Eva Jan 6 crowd).
    Last edited by Bold2013; January 6th, 2022 at 09:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Trump evangelicals and true biblical Christians are being conflated in this article.

    Churches were unconstitutionally told not to meet. Some pastors were even prosecuted or harassed (others thrown into prison in Canada). These churches/men fought in the right and biblical ways (as oppose to the Trump Eva Jan 6 crowd).
    I have to ask, do you think Trump "evangelicals" and true Biblical Christians are the same?

    The article quotes infamous Evangelicals. Were they misquoted?
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; January 6th, 2022 at 09:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Itís a venn diagram. Many evangelicals will be having a surprise Matthew 7:21-23 moment at judgement. In other words the real church is much smaller than evangelicalism.

    A big problem for our country is having two major political parties. People believe that there are only two choices and itís becomes a lesser of two evils. In this case the side for Life will always get that religious vote (both evangelicals and biblical Christians) especially during an election where Supreme Court justices may be selected.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Itís a venn diagram. Many evangelicals will be having a surprise Matthew 7:21-23 moment at judgement. In other words the real church is much smaller than evangelicalism.

    A big problem for our country is having two major political parties. People believe that there are only two choices and itís becomes a lesser of two evils. In this case the side for Life will always get that religious vote (both evangelicals and biblical Christians) especially during an election where Supreme Court justices may be selected.
    Fundamentalism and Evanglicalism have been the true meaning of the true church for decades. I admit that most denominational groups are not being educated in the scriptures. No one who is scripturally aware would support Trump. Folks in the modern US church are taught to sit in the pews and listen to the "man/woman" of God.

    I was taught to read and interpret the texts objectivily. I am not suggesting that I am an expert, but I know enough of what Jesus said, or is said he said, to know a bit.

    I totally agree the two party system is a problem. I consider myself now an independant.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Trump evangelicals and true biblical Christians are being conflated in this article.

    Churches were unconstitutionally told not to meet. Some pastors were even prosecuted or harassed (others thrown into prison in Canada). These churches/men fought in the right and biblical ways (as oppose to the Trump Eva Jan 6 crowd).
    I have to ask, do you think Trump "evangelicals" and true Biblical Christians are the same?

    The article quotes infamous Evangelicals. Were they misquoted?
    I wouldnít have much faith in the evangelicals referenced in this peace.

    Also crazy interesting that Christian Nationalism has taken the dominionism theology (again not biblical but definitely sprinkled out there in Big Eva).

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    You said ďNo one who is scripturally aware would support Trump.Ē I feel the same about BidenÖ

    If you put Trump and Biden policies side by side there is one that is more Biblical than the other but I wholeheartedly agree they are both bad trees bearing bad fruit.

    The joy that I have in all of this is none of this is a surprise to God and he has used pagan kings in the past to do His will.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    You said ďNo one who is scripturally aware would support Trump.Ē I feel the same about BidenÖ

    If you put Trump and Biden policies side by side there is one that is more Biblical than the other but I wholeheartedly agree they are both bad trees bearing bad fruit.

    The joy that I have in all of this is none of this is a surprise to God and he has used pagan kings in the past to do His will.
    You could say that, but not using scripture. Biden's true nature for now is more hidden than Trump. Of course, not voting is never an option since it provides the other with an advantage, meaning the greater good comes into play. I can make a Bibilcal argument if you like. The only analogy I can think of now is King Saul. He was judged and replaced by an imperfect person. I do not think God, scripturally, ever encouraged a king.

    God never endorsed chosing people like Trump. He might have "used" people like Trump. And, I do not think Trump is unredeemable, but he doesn't have a special path.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Itís funny you bring up biblical kingship. I taught a quarter long Sunday school course on it.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Trump. Biden.
    Pro Life. Pro killing innocent children in the womb
    Anti CRT. Pro CRT (which is at odds with biblical Christianity)


    Biden also supports and even seems to celebrate gender fluidity and homosexuality

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    You didn't learn this from Jesus. You have to separate Paul from Jesus. I know, I know, you probably think all scriptures are inspired from God. It is what you were taught.

    While I agree regarding abortion, I also have to be on the side of a pregnant girl whose Evangelical parents are abandoning her. I do think being pro-life is also being pro mother and pro adoption.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Oh I see you pick and chose what you want to believe from the Bible.

    Jesus endorsed marriage as male and female. Jesus is the creator and made humans in Godís image, male and female not non-binary (see Gen 1 and John 1).

    Jesus recounts Sodom and Gomorrah in Luke (I also believe that it was Jesus with Abraham who watch it be consumed but also sent angels to rescue the only righteous ones)

    Jesus showing care for children in many areas.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Oh I see you pick and chose what you want to believe from the Bible.

    Jesus endorsed marriage as male and female. Jesus is the creator and made humans in Godís image, male and female not non-binary (see Gen 1 and John 1).

    Jesus recounts Sodom and Gomorrah in Luke (I also believe that it was Jesus with Abraham who watch it be consumed but also sent angels to rescue the only righteous ones)

    Jesus showing care for children in many areas.
    Not at all and you'd be hard pressed to prove otherwise. And again, prove me wrong. Saying I choose and pick is such a familar retort.

    Endorsing marriage is not condemning anyone. He was said to be a friend of sinners. He was friends with at least one known protitute. Harab helped the spies. The problem is a lack of Biblical education and awareness of what Jesus said and did. The focus is mostly on Paul and others.

    Ask yourself, how many sinners with whom do you have a friendship?

    Jesus used the most dispised to explain "who is my neighbor". He could have used a homosexual in todays intolerant Evangelical circles.
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; January 6th, 2022 at 11:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Yeah you must be right.

    Sodom and Gomorrah wasnít condemnation of homosexuality.
    Jesus didnít endorse and fulfill the entire OT.
    Jesus loves sinners so much He wonít judged them justly.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Yeah you must be right.

    Sodom and Gomorrah wasnít condemnation of homosexuality.
    Jesus didnít endorse and fulfill the entire OT.
    Jesus loves sinners so much He wonít judged them justly.
    Yours is a common rebutal, but not Biblical. Jesus was a friend of sinners. It was an accusation from those considered religious. Jesus can be a problem for some Chrisitans where he doen't fit into their box.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Sigh

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    I suppose that's the last resort. Just sigh, because not even Jesus' words and actions would make any difference.

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    I am not a present or former evangelical Christian. But I have lived among them, worked among them, talked with them, and read about their political aspirations and sense of mission.

    As Bold alluded to above, my sense is that in this two-party system, evangelicals will choose whichever party stands against abortion (in nearly all, if not ALL cases) and will favor anti-abortion morality over all other moral concerns in a two-party election. There are other issues around religious freedom and family structure that they care about, but these are subordinated in their desire to overturn Roe v Wade. To ask them to care more about caring for the poor or for the welfare of abused mothers or abused and abandoned children is to ask them to care for things further down their moral concern list. In politics, for them, Roe is #1. And even that abortion numbers have been falling does not matter: Roe is #1 mission (politically).

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    I am not a present or former evangelical Christian. But I have lived among them, worked among them, talked with them, and read about their political aspirations and sense of mission.

    As Bold alluded to above, my sense is that in this two-party system, evangelicals will choose whichever party stands against abortion (in nearly all, if not ALL cases) and will favor anti-abortion morality over all other moral concerns in a two-party election. There are other issues around religious freedom and family structure that they care about, but these are subordinated in their desire to overturn Roe v Wade. To ask them to care more about caring for the poor or for the welfare of abused mothers or abused and abandoned children is to ask them to care for things further down their moral concern list. In politics, for them, Roe is #1. And even that abortion numbers have been falling does not matter: Roe is #1 mission (politically).
    I do agree that abortion is the primary concern. That said, among those who identify as Christan also adopt and work to help young pregnant women, at least in my church gatherings experience. Not so much among Pentacostals and Charismatics, but more academically based/Bible groups.

    The problem as I see it, if you think Jesus wants you to sleep with the Devil to accomplish the Kingdom of God as you define it, where did you get that notion?

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    Default Re: Christian Nationaism

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post

    As Bold alluded to above, my sense is that in this two-party system, evangelicals will choose whichever party stands against abortion (in nearly all, if not ALL cases) and will favor anti-abortion morality over all other moral concerns in a two-party election. There are other issues around religious freedom and family structure that they care about, but these are subordinated in their desire to overturn Roe v Wade.

    To ask them to care more about caring for the poor or for the welfare of abused mothers or abused and abandoned children is to ask them to care for things further down their moral concern list. In politics, for them, Roe is #1. And even that abortion numbers have been falling does not matter: Roe is #1 mission (politically).
    Lest we get caught up in semantics the definition of "evangelical" can wait for another day. Abortion is not exclusively a political issue; it may not even be a mostly political issue.

    Yes, abortion is a critical issue, a make-or-break issue, among anti-abortion/pro-life Christians. Which is logical if one understands their view of when life begins. Commonly cited figures have 62-63 million abortions have been performed since Roe. Hypothetically, if 62-63 million adults were killed during that same period for the same reasons that abortions are performed the focus on ending the killing would be recognized a honorable goal.

    I did separate your second paragraph into two parts. "...to care more about caring from the poor or...abused mothers...or abused or abandoned children..." might be more an issue of priorities than concern. It's impossible to care about abused or abandoned children if they're killed before birth. I'd phrase it more in terms of bringing those concerns up to the same level. Can't speak for your experience, but those concerns are clearly expressed and acted upon.

    "...abortion numbers have been fallling..." The quickest number I could find was for 2019, with about 629,000 abortions in the US. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm
    If there were 629,000 adults killed in 2019 for the same reasons abortions are performed I'd expect the same concern and focus.

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