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Thread: Ink windows

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    Default Ink windows

    Was a window into nothing.
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; May 13th, 2022 at 01:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    I think it's a safe assumption that the majority were and are made without windows, when you think about all the ebonite and non-translucent materials. But, how are you defining "ink window"? If I unscrew a non translucent barrel and examine the converter for remaining ink (or a cartridge, for that matter), am I looking at an "ink window"? I dunno...

    Just hazarding a guess, I suspect "ink windows" came about from the introduction of translucent materials. An unexpected "benefit", so to speak, that marketers were quick to capitalize on. "Our new material allows you to see how much ink remains!!!" sort of thing, which perhaps led to the intentional inclusion of windows. Running out of ink while away from the bottle could be inconvenient or even problematic, which I suppose was a motivation for developing the cartridge.

    Anyway, I find them useful when they're present. I kind of like them, but don't choose or not-choose a pen because it has an ink window or not.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Ink windows only really work well with "ink in the barrel" pens and it is the increase in popularity of those filling systems that has given rise to the increase in ink windows. I like them but most of my pens don't have an ink window and I don't miss it. If a pen runs out I always have another to hand so I'm not constantly trying to gauge how much ink is left.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    I like them very much when they actually have ink in contact - as Eachan says above - "ink the barrel", but find them a bit pointless when they're just showing a converter or cartridge, which can be so easily checked otherwise.

    I think it's one of the reasons I tend to favour piston filled pens over those with sacs, despite my having far more of the latter.

    What I don't particularly like is an "ink in the barrel" pen without one. I have a piston fill Momento Zero which had some ink starvation problems early on (turned out to be a faulty feed). Not being able to judge whether the pen was empty or not made figuring out the problem so much harder than it needed to be, and I rather fell out of love with the pen along the way.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    I've seen Parker advertisements about the "TV View Barrel" of the laminated clear Vacumatics since the fact that you could see the ink level(or at least when new, now there's no guarantee). Sometime after that Sheaffer started putting the little window in the section on I think both lever and vaccuum fillers, but I've found that to be of mixed use. By the 40s and 50s, American makers seem to have given up as you couldn't see the ink level on Sheaffer Touchdowns or Snorkels, nor could you on the original Vacumatic 51. You sort of can see it on the Aeromatic 51s-it's easy with a fresh, brand new sac but they color pretty quickly and can usually only be seen with strong backlighting.

    My oldest piston pen is a Pelikan 100, and it has a(very ambered) large ink window. Striped Pelikans, whether vintage 400s or modern 400/600/800/1000s don't have them, but you can see the ink level in the entire barrel(other than on pens like my brown M800 where the stripes were opaque black). The solid color Pelikans like my M205 that was my first piston pen, the black M1000 that a friend of mine says will be his last pen he gets rid of, or my new 101N, have windows. All of my Montblanc pistons have windows, although I always feel like on the 12/14/22/24 it's in a weird spot since it's narrow and in the middle of the reservoir. I'm pretty sure all the 13x MBs had them, although I've never owned or handled one of them in person.

    One oddball one I had was a C/C Montblanc 221PR. It had a tiny window that would let you get a peak at the level in the cartridge(never tried a converter in it)-seemed pretty useless but it was there.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Quote Originally Posted by eachan View Post
    Ink windows only really work well with "ink in the barrel" pens and it is the increase in popularity of those filling systems that has given rise to the increase in ink windows. I like them but most of my pens don't have an ink window and I don't miss it. If a pen runs out I always have another to hand so I'm not constantly trying to gauge how much ink is left.
    Some Montblanc WE pens have solid barrels without windows but I don't really miss the fact that they don't have a window as, like you, I always have more than one pen to hand so if one's empty I pick up another.
    Also, it's one way of always knowing whether I'm writing with my Montblanc 146 or 147.
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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    I've seen Parker advertisements about the "TV View Barrel" of the laminated clear Vacumatics since the fact that you could see the ink level(or at least when new, now there's no guarantee). Sometime after that Sheaffer started putting the little window in the section on I think both lever and vaccuum fillers, but I've found that to be of mixed use. By the 40s and 50s, American makers seem to have given up as you couldn't see the ink level on Sheaffer Touchdowns or Snorkels, nor could you on the original Vacumatic 51. You sort of can see it on the Aeromatic 51s-it's easy with a fresh, brand new sac but they color pretty quickly and can usually only be seen with strong backlighting.

    My oldest piston pen is a Pelikan 100, and it has a(very ambered) large ink window. Striped Pelikans, whether vintage 400s or modern 400/600/800/1000s don't have them, but you can see the ink level in the entire barrel(other than on pens like my brown M800 where the stripes were opaque black). The solid color Pelikans like my M205 that was my first piston pen, the black M1000 that a friend of mine says will be his last pen he gets rid of, or my new 101N, have windows. All of my Montblanc pistons have windows, although I always feel like on the 12/14/22/24 it's in a weird spot since it's narrow and in the middle of the reservoir. I'm pretty sure all the 13x MBs had them, although I've never owned or handled one of them in person.

    One oddball one I had was a C/C Montblanc 221PR. It had a tiny window that would let you get a peak at the level in the cartridge(never tried a converter in it)-seemed pretty useless but it was there.
    I think maybe the Dunn-Pen Company was the very first company to allow for a visualized fill sometime in the 1920s--I think those pens were moderately successful but that filling system was never used again in the U.S. Not too long later, Parker released the Vacumatic, which was the first highly successful pen with visualization, and pushed Sheaffer, Wahl-Eversharp and Conklin to follow suit. It became an integral advertising point for all of them.
    I'd guess the Pelikan 100 (originally without model number iirc) was the first European pen with an ink window. Did it start a trend? Maybe for German pens?
    I think the overall trend for visualization goes from pretty popular from the start, takes a big dip in the '60s through the '90s, and starts to come back in the aughts.
    As for the structural integrity question--my understanding from Brad Torelli (who makes pens with them) is that there is no loss of integrity if the window is made properly. He makes them using cast acrylics which are more stable than injection-molded plastics. The only structural integrity issues with ink windows seem to come from modern injection-molded pens.
    Last edited by fountainpenkid; January 14th, 2022 at 12:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Quote Originally Posted by fountainpenkid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    I've seen Parker advertisements about the "TV View Barrel" of the laminated clear Vacumatics since the fact that you could see the ink level(or at least when new, now there's no guarantee). Sometime after that Sheaffer started putting the little window in the section on I think both lever and vaccuum fillers, but I've found that to be of mixed use. By the 40s and 50s, American makers seem to have given up as you couldn't see the ink level on Sheaffer Touchdowns or Snorkels, nor could you on the original Vacumatic 51. You sort of can see it on the Aeromatic 51s-it's easy with a fresh, brand new sac but they color pretty quickly and can usually only be seen with strong backlighting.

    My oldest piston pen is a Pelikan 100, and it has a(very ambered) large ink window. Striped Pelikans, whether vintage 400s or modern 400/600/800/1000s don't have them, but you can see the ink level in the entire barrel(other than on pens like my brown M800 where the stripes were opaque black). The solid color Pelikans like my M205 that was my first piston pen, the black M1000 that a friend of mine says will be his last pen he gets rid of, or my new 101N, have windows. All of my Montblanc pistons have windows, although I always feel like on the 12/14/22/24 it's in a weird spot since it's narrow and in the middle of the reservoir. I'm pretty sure all the 13x MBs had them, although I've never owned or handled one of them in person.

    One oddball one I had was a C/C Montblanc 221PR. It had a tiny window that would let you get a peak at the level in the cartridge(never tried a converter in it)-seemed pretty useless but it was there.
    I think maybe the Dunn-Pen Company was the very first company to allow for a visualized fill sometime in the 1920s--I think those pens were moderately successful but that filling system was never used again in the U.S. Not too long later, Parker released the Vacumatic, which was the first highly successful pen with visualization, and pushed Sheaffer, Wahl-Eversharp and Conklin to follow suit. It became an integral advertising point for all of them.
    I'd guess the Pelikan 100 (originally without model number iirc) was the first European pen with an ink window. Did it start a trend? Maybe for German pens?
    I think the overall trend for visualization goes from pretty popular from the start, takes a big dip in the '60s through the '90s, and starts to come back in the aughts.
    As for the structural integrity question--my understanding from Brad Torelli (who makes pens with them) is that there is no loss of integrity if the window is made properly. He makes them using cast acrylics which are more stable than injection-molded plastics. The only structural integrity issues with ink windows seem to come from modern injection-molded pens.
    Dunn-Pen is one I'm going to have to look up and read up on.

    While we're at it, I've never handled one but isn't Waterman's Ink-Vue sort of a take on the general Vacumatic concept?

    I know the only cracked Montblanc barrel I've ever dealt with was a on a 60s 149, and it was cracked along the edge of one of the "stripes" in the ink window and continued down through the threads. I fortunately found a replacement barrel for it...

    I'd been under the impression that at least the older resin MB 149 barrels were double-shot injection molded, although certainly don't hold me to that. That's just a guess from looking at them, and also sometimes seeing what looks like casting flash in the clear portions. If that's the case, it would give a stress point that could explain why mine cracked where it did.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fountainpenkid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    I've seen Parker advertisements about the "TV View Barrel" of the laminated clear Vacumatics since the fact that you could see the ink level(or at least when new, now there's no guarantee). Sometime after that Sheaffer started putting the little window in the section on I think both lever and vaccuum fillers, but I've found that to be of mixed use. By the 40s and 50s, American makers seem to have given up as you couldn't see the ink level on Sheaffer Touchdowns or Snorkels, nor could you on the original Vacumatic 51. You sort of can see it on the Aeromatic 51s-it's easy with a fresh, brand new sac but they color pretty quickly and can usually only be seen with strong backlighting.

    My oldest piston pen is a Pelikan 100, and it has a(very ambered) large ink window. Striped Pelikans, whether vintage 400s or modern 400/600/800/1000s don't have them, but you can see the ink level in the entire barrel(other than on pens like my brown M800 where the stripes were opaque black). The solid color Pelikans like my M205 that was my first piston pen, the black M1000 that a friend of mine says will be his last pen he gets rid of, or my new 101N, have windows. All of my Montblanc pistons have windows, although I always feel like on the 12/14/22/24 it's in a weird spot since it's narrow and in the middle of the reservoir. I'm pretty sure all the 13x MBs had them, although I've never owned or handled one of them in person.

    One oddball one I had was a C/C Montblanc 221PR. It had a tiny window that would let you get a peak at the level in the cartridge(never tried a converter in it)-seemed pretty useless but it was there.
    I think maybe the Dunn-Pen Company was the very first company to allow for a visualized fill sometime in the 1920s--I think those pens were moderately successful but that filling system was never used again in the U.S. Not too long later, Parker released the Vacumatic, which was the first highly successful pen with visualization, and pushed Sheaffer, Wahl-Eversharp and Conklin to follow suit. It became an integral advertising point for all of them.
    I'd guess the Pelikan 100 (originally without model number iirc) was the first European pen with an ink window. Did it start a trend? Maybe for German pens?
    I think the overall trend for visualization goes from pretty popular from the start, takes a big dip in the '60s through the '90s, and starts to come back in the aughts.
    As for the structural integrity question--my understanding from Brad Torelli (who makes pens with them) is that there is no loss of integrity if the window is made properly. He makes them using cast acrylics which are more stable than injection-molded plastics. The only structural integrity issues with ink windows seem to come from modern injection-molded pens.
    Dunn-Pen is one I'm going to have to look up and read up on.

    While we're at it, I've never handled one but isn't Waterman's Ink-Vue sort of a take on the general Vacumatic concept?

    I know the only cracked Montblanc barrel I've ever dealt with was a on a 60s 149, and it was cracked along the edge of one of the "stripes" in the ink window and continued down through the threads. I fortunately found a replacement barrel for it...

    I'd been under the impression that at least the older resin MB 149 barrels were double-shot injection molded, although certainly don't hold me to that. That's just a guess from looking at them, and also sometimes seeing what looks like casting flash in the clear portions. If that's the case, it would give a stress point that could explain why mine cracked where it did.
    Yes I forgot about Waterman's too with the ink-vue! And across the pond, Onoto, and Swan Viso-fil...(and I guess Ford's Patent counts).
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    Default Re: Ink windows

    I like ink windows. I have said to myself that I won't buy another piston filler without one, but, you know, we all say crap to ourselves that we don't stick to.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    I like ink windows, particularly on piston fillers.

    With cartidge pens it is easy enough to stuff a spare cartridge into my wallet to carry out and about.

    With pistons, it's not always practical. An empty imk window tells me to fil the pen before I take it outside.

    The ink window also helps when the pen won't write.

    If there's ink in the window, chances are it is a dried feed, which just needs wetting rather than refilling.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    .... but, you know, we all say crap to ourselves that we don't stick to.
    Indeed we do
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    Default Re: Ink windows

    I like ink windows, not only for its ink-indicator function, but it's also very helpful when you try to re-cork old piston fillers.

    Since I love German piston fillers, I restore quite a bit of them, and interestingly, although they may look similar from the outside, there are quite a few variants on how the piston fillers are constructed, and each of these little variants may ease or hinder restoration. But in all of my experience with these, the presence of an ink window helps a lot to ensure that the new cork does its job properly or not.
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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    I like ink windows, not only for its ink-indicator function, but it's also very helpful when you try to re-cork old piston fillers.

    Since I love German piston fillers, I restore quite a bit of them, and interestingly, although they may look similar from the outside, there are quite a few variants on how the piston fillers are constructed, and each of these little variants may ease or hinder restoration. But in all of my experience with these, the presence of an ink window helps a lot to ensure that the new cork does its job properly or not.
    Great point about a view of the repaired mechanism. Very handy, that.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Hadn't even thought of repair...

    Another one along those lines, though-

    I'm always afraid I'm going to break MB telescopic pistons because you turn them SO much and you get a definite "hitch" when the piston actually starts to turn. The ink window lets me confirm if I've dropped the piston far enough. Since they can wear and slip also, it helps me when evaluating one if the piston is actually working correctly.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    IMG_5300.JPGHi. I've got a bit of a thing for Watermans glass cartridge pens, and this one turned up a while back .with the little gold S on the cap and I was surprised that it had the small round ink window .... it's the only one I've ever seen !
    I'm in the camp that thinks it's usually a gimmick ( amongst other gimmicks obviously) , as when the pen runs dry it's time to refill it, and most of us have a bunch of pens inked up at any time anyway. Quite often the see through bits discolour as well.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Robalone View Post
    IMG_5300.JPG
    I'm in the camp that thinks it's usually a gimmick ( amongst other gimmicks obviously) , as when the pen runs dry it's time to refill it, and most of us have a bunch of pens inked up at any time anyway. Quite often the see through bits discolour as well.
    I think there's a bit of irony in that statement.

    In 2022, ink windows seem to be the norm on pens with an integral filling mechanism and especially on pistons, although there are certainly exceptions(like a lot of MB LEs as mentioned above).

    I don't think it's a stretch to think that in 2022, the typical person using a piston pen is a person likely to both own multiples and to have more than one ready to go.

    Back in the day of latex sacs, I'd venture to guess that most people only owned or at least actively used a single pen at a given time. Someone who just needs to pick up their pen and write all day certainly would have appreciated having a way to know when it was running low. There again, the pens that did have the ability to visualize it often made a big deal out of it.

    Of course with levers, buttons, Vacumatics, etc I've heard plenty of folks talk about how it was normal at the end or beginning of the day to dunk your pen in your ink bottle, give the lever a few flips or the button a few presses, and know that your pen was full and ready to go. You'd only fill that pen out of your bottle of Skrip blue-black or whatever ink you were using and keep using it until it was empty, then probably buy another bottle of the same ink.

    In 2022, in my immediate view on my desk I count 20 ink bottles, and there are well over 100 bottles in my office at home(and probably 25 at work). Yes, the bottle of Waterman Serenity Blue I bought in 2021 is nearly empty because nearly every pen I own has had that ink in it at some point or another, while the bottle of Superchrome Turquoise it sits next to is there for decoration other than a few times I've dipped it and the one time I filled a Hero 51 clone with it. I say all of that to underscore that even though I have my old faithful inks I use, I still enjoy variety and changing inks.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    Most here probably know this already, but I remembered back when I first encounter it, thinking that it's quite unintuitive for an ink sac-based filling system to have an ink window.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    [QUOTE=penwash;351623]Most here probably know this already, but I remembered back when I first encounter it, thinking that it's quite unintuitive for an ink sac-based filling system to have an ink window.

    Hmm, maybe I'm missing something, but it's more than counterintuitive!
    Even if the sac was say pliglass you wouldn't see very much if anything of the ink, and a latex sac would show a big fat nothing ?!
    Is it even a thing that a sac filler has an ink window ? That doesn't make any sense !!

    Possibly a 'demonstrator' with a clear sac ......but how many of them are there ? Anyway, that's not an ink window .
    Last edited by Robalone; January 17th, 2022 at 03:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Ink windows

    With some sac fillers a clear section gives a small view of the ink.

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