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Thread: Celluloid Pen Question

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    Question Celluloid Pen Question

    Concerning celluloid pens, vintage or new - Not acrylic resin pens.

    I know that celluloid outgasses with no warning. It may be weeks, or it may be several decades from date of manufacture before it starts to outgas.
    I know there is no cure once it starts, and nothing that can be done to prevent outgassing from starting.
    Celluloid "is a ticking time bomb" that may go off at any time.

    When it outgasses, it is an acidic gas, that will affect any metal near it.
    People who collect knives keep their celluloid knives away from their other knives to avoid damaging any nearby innocents when they start to outgas. Once they start, the only option is to remove the covers/handles, to minimize damage to the knife in question.
    Some are known to keep their celluloid handled knives in individual canning jars, with the lid on.

    What about celluloid pens?

    Do you avoid them?

    When (not "if") they outgas, do you salvage what parts you can and toss the body and cap in the trash?

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    I'm not certain all of your assumptions are entirely correct, at least in terms of the degree of outgassing/etc.

    I have many celluloid pens, and few are stored separately. The biggest tip I have heard from vintage collectors who have thousands of pens is to have good air circulation. If one *could* identify those pens most likely to have issues, they would be good candidates for separating out. These might also be pens that you would want to store sac-less, or use silicone sacs.

    David Nishimura has a bit on general celluloid storage and issues, but I was looking for his recommendation of archival antitarnish papers he mentioned (to be used along with the storage trays) and I can't find that bit at the moment.

    ETA: it bugs me when I can’t find something, so I kept working on it. The product I was thinking of is micro chamber paper. After looking for that, I came across another resource page, from Indy-Pen-Dance, that has a lot of good storage tips for consideration. Take a look here.

    Note that this subject has been discussed numerous times over the years, and on some of the boards there were thoughts and commentary from well-known vintage pen collectors and restorers who don't come around anymore. Plenty of info from basic search tooks, such as this thread and this discussion. In any event, it isn't a blanket issue for all the pens, but maybe knowing particular pens susceptible to the issues, and then the storage strategies to minimize damage and spread.
    Last edited by Jon Szanto; January 15th, 2022 at 12:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post

    David Nishimura has a bit on general celluloid storage and issues, but I was looking for his recommendation of archival antitarnish papers he mentioned (to be used along with the storage trays) and I can't find that bit at the moment.
    This:
    MicroChamber Interleaving Paper, .0025 in., 65g/ m2
    https://www.conservationresources.co...in-65g-m2.html

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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    UOG--my understanding is that the outgassing is not something that suddenly happens all at once...more of a slow process whose rate increases over time. Something to do with the camphor (the plasticizer) evaporating, and nitric acid being released ("outgassing"). The quality of the celluloid used--the degree to which it was cured--plays a big role in how stable it will be, as does the thickness, where the nitric acid gets trapped (hence the ends of Dorics and 100-year pens become crazed and break off). High temperature and humidity make the effects of the HNO3 outgassing worse...
    I think there's still some uncertainty on the exact mechanism of degradation, however.
    Last edited by fountainpenkid; January 15th, 2022 at 10:13 AM. Reason: chemical formula
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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    I have a couple of dozen vintage celluloid FP´s and mechanical pencils, that are nearly a 100 yeras old , so far, no issues.

    They are kept well ventilated, away from sunlight.

    Now, some specific pens are known to develop these issues sooner or later, are should be avoided.

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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    Most of my celluloid is Parker, with some Sheaffer, Montblanc, and Pelikan mixed in.

    Some brands seem known for instability, but bad celluloid seems the exception rather than the rule on the ones I have. I've seen some mention of certain colors being more prone to it than others, but I have some of the "naughty list" ones like an OS Balance in red veined gray and it's nearly perfect. A lot of the issues seem to crop up in second and third tier brands, and anecdotally I seem to also recall that some tread carefully around Italian pens in general.

    In general, I try to keep my celluloid where it can "breath". I don't go nuts on it, but a lot of my celluloids are in open trays in my desk drawer and since I do use all my pens, they are cycled around somewhat frequently.

    If one does start to go, I think the biggest thing is keep it separate from everything else as others have mentioned, both celluloid and resin(the latter to avoid damaging trim).

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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    My 'naughty' list includes Edacoto Supers, celluloid Rotring Tintenkuli, and Waterman Hundred Year (though those only rot at the ends, so if you chop the ends off and replace them you're good to go... it's a bit more complicated than that but not much).
    Some French celluloids, particularly Bayard, seem prone to warping, but not so much to crystallization.

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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    It seems that many of the Wahl Doric pens have issues with celluloid breaking down, though not all the colors/patterns.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    It seems that many of the Wahl Doric pens have issues with celluloid breaking down, though not all the colors/patterns.
    It's one of the reasons I sought out a jet black Doric, because it's my understanding that solid black is one of the most stable colors.

    Also regarding dorics, I thought because of the way they made the facets (pressed into shape rather than cut), those areas or concentration seems to be where crazing starts.

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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    It seems that many of the Wahl Doric pens have issues with celluloid breaking down, though not all the colors/patterns.
    From what I´ve read, Jet Black is safe, the other four colors are known to have issues, some more than others, but I´ve seen different rankings.

    I´ve had a Morocco (Red), and a Kashmir (Dark Green), in my collection which did not have any issues.

    [IMG][/IMG]

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    Default Re: Celluloid Pen Question

    Beautiful pens Wahl.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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