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Thread: Wanting to forgo the sac

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    Default Wanting to forgo the sac

    Hello,

    I have a pile of old pens, some ready to restore, some not.

    I was curious if there is an alternative to sac fill pens?

    Is there something else I can use? Ultimately would like to be able to use a converter or something.

    Thank you in advance!

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    Senior Member Ron Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    There is no practical way to convert a sac pen to a cartridge/converter pen, especially a vintage pen.

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Hmmm… I might have to come up with something. I have an old Schaefer with a damaged nib, collar/grip are in good shape. I figure I can cannibalize a few other parts pens. 🤔

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    There is no practical way to convert a sac pen to a cartridge/converter pen, especially a vintage pen.
    Ron is one of the most experienced fountain pen repair persons in the business and you can be sure he is right here.

    For a start there is no cartridge or converter piercer on sac pen feeds so there is nothing on there that either a cartridge or a converter that will "plug" onto. Anything you try to "fix" on won't be strong enough for the purpose and will just come off as soon as you try to push on a cartridge or a converter.

    You would need a lathe and some considerable expertise to make a complete new feed and collector of the correct size to fit into a particular pen. Ridiculously expensive.

    Your best plan would be to sell the vintage sac fill pens as they are, for repair and buy a couple of C/C pens with the money you get.

    Forego the sacs: buy some other C/C pens
    Last edited by Chrissy; February 12th, 2022 at 11:24 PM.
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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Resto-Mod-ifier View Post
    Hmmm… I might have to come up with something. I have an old Schaefer with a damaged nib, collar/grip are in good shape. I figure I can cannibalize a few other parts pens. 🤔
    Pictures. We want pictures or it never happened.

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    I am not discounting Rons input, however without thinking out the box, our world would have never progressed.

    Like getting a 68 Camaro shell, I’d put a modern drivetrain in and make it more fun to use!

    User name checks out! 🤣

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    As of right now, the feed, collar and grip are okay and shouldn’t be an issue. I have a pile of pens that can’t be used for anything else. Actually a few I put some magnets on and put them on my fridge.
    Last edited by Resto-Mod-ifier; February 12th, 2022 at 09:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    And done. 20 minutes of measurements and about 30 minutes of “work”

    Dunno how to post pics here, so here’s a link
    https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpen...tm_name=iossmf

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Posted in the link

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Uh...

    All those photos show is a convertor shoved into a section of a nice old Sheaffer pen. You don't say anything about how it attaches and is leakproof. You apparently just plan on having the section be a loose friction fit into the barrel and will keep pulling and re-inserting to re-ink, instead of having a threaded barrel and section. What you have, unless there is some magic we can't see, is a very short-lived solution that may or may not work (i.e. what is going to draw the ink out of the section?).

    So, points for trying, but this is still a work-in-progress at best, from all I can see. I'm all for experiments and thinking out-of-the-box, and I have a few of my own projects I've completed. Still, I like for them to work and to work on a longer-term basis.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpen...tm_name=iossmf

    It works. And pretty well for an FPR flex nib.

    There are a few tweaks that will be needed, but it writes

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    That went better than I expected - nice job. Is it leaking?

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Here’s a video too
    https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpen...tm_name=iossmf

    At the end of the day, it’s a pen. Not a spaceship.

    Don’t be afraid to experiment 🙂

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    No that was me. I dribbled the ink before I wiped off the nib.

    It works pretty well so far.

    As stated previously, there will have to be tests, and more tests and as far as the converter just loose in there, it’s not.

    I do have a brain in my head. The converter was from a Conklin; they have outter threads. I used to be a mechanic/fabricator/welder and still have a tap and die set.

    Also what do you add to your threads to ensure it won’t leak…?

    A little dab of grease.


    Do I pass John? Can I be an FPGeek like you guys?

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Resto-Mod-ifier View Post
    ...Can I be an FPGeek like you guys?
    You've already proven that! You pass. Imagination and drive is good. (Of course, if you're destroying perfectly good vintage parts, you might be run out of town on a rail.)

    But is it enough proof? Nah. We 'll want to see close-up the fitment of the section to the converter without the barrel blocking the view. And a shot of filling the pen with the nib immersed in the bottle while twisting (or squeezing) the converter. That only leaves long-term reliability on the page and in the pocket!

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    You demonstrated proof of principle. Well done and good first step.

    Ignore the nay-sayers.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    It's a good thing to experiment and to make something work properly but I would like to see it when the piercing nipple is visible on a correctly fitting feed and when the correct converter fits onto it. So far all I've seen is a feed from a sac pen that may have a converter shoved up next to it. This is a work in progress.

    I have trouble with the connection of a converter onto the perfectly correct nipple of some pens when there is a tiny split in the end of the converter. I find those pens with this converter fault either write up to a couple of paragraphs then fade away and stop writing altogether, or they blob ink everywhere. This has happened to me with several brands: Sheaffer, Parker, Delta and Waterman. They need the converter to fit accurately onto the nipple in order to work and a simple split is enough to throw them off.

    For how to post pictures in posts use the Manage Attachments box, details of which are under the FAQ tab^^^ Reading & Posting messages > Adding images and attachments to posts.
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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Ignore the nay-sayers.
    You're so mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    It's a good thing to experiment and to make something work properly but I would like to see it when the piercing nipple is visible on a correctly fitting feed and when the correct converter fits onto it. So far all I've seen is a feed from a sac pen that may have a converter shoved up next to it. This is a work in progress.
    I'll just pop in to say that our OP had a similar thread on reddit and I gave him a Really Hard Time and he posted photos and explanations and we wrassled for a while and then saw each other's viewpoints and It Was Good. He did do an interesting thing, which was use a threaded converter and put threads on the inner part of the section, so the converter is held in place by threads. Me? I am not certain that will last for long, nor do I think friction opening/closing a section in an old barrel is going to do anything but end up being painful, but you never know. And this is what leads - maybe - to other, innovative ideas.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post

    You're so mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    It's a good thing to experiment and to make something work properly but I would like to see it when the piercing nipple is visible on a correctly fitting feed and when the correct converter fits onto it. So far all I've seen is a feed from a sac pen that may have a converter shoved up next to it. This is a work in progress.
    I'll just pop in to say that our OP had a similar thread on reddit and I gave him a Really Hard Time and he posted photos and explanations and we wrassled for a while and then saw each other's viewpoints and It Was Good. He did do an interesting thing, which was use a threaded converter and put threads on the inner part of the section, so the converter is held in place by threads. Me? I am not certain that will last for long, nor do I think friction opening/closing a section in an old barrel is going to do anything but end up being painful, but you never know. And this is what leads - maybe - to other, innovative ideas.
    Thank you for the additional information and I understand but I'm not looking on Reddit so my comments can only apply to what I see on here.
    My Delta uses a threaded converter and when it developed a split in the end the pen starts and writes for a short time then gets drier and drier until it stops altogether.

    Even if OP now has threads inside the inner part of the section and a converter screws into it that isn't a method that any other C/C pen manufacturer has decided to adopt so there might be a reason for that.

    On the only picture I looked at the section and barrel no longer meet accurately so that would be a problem for me as well as the need to keep removing the section from the barrel. Something the original pen was never designed for. Fred suggests it needs to be working in a pocket. That is something I wouldn't try. Not that I try it with any of my pens in any case LOL

    As far as this particular pen is concerned it was a Sheaffer vintage sac filled pen that might have been repairable. Now it's probably an unsaleable frankenpen that may or may not work and that is also absolutely fine as long as the OP understands that.
    Last edited by Chrissy; February 15th, 2022 at 12:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Wanting to forgo the sac

    I finally got around to looking at the Reddit thread. I laughed at the use of "nay-sayer" there, and my use here. Completely coincidental, point being there seems to be a lot of "only the experts can do that..." mentality - more prevalent at FPN - but I've experienced my share of it there and here.

    When I read the OP, the first thing I thought was: "Is the barrel big enough to fit a cart or converter?", and "How big is the section?"

    It should be relatively easy to drill and tap the section to the same thread pitch as a #5 or #6 nib unit. Install the cartridge or converter on the now-present nipple and job done.

    It looks like the OP threaded the inside of the section to accept a screw-on converter. That works too, but the threads need sealed (as he points out). A rosin sealant would work better than grease, or a more permanent solution would be just to use an adhesive/glue. Red or blue thread lock might work too, but rosin makes the most sense. Flounder has a blog on how to make it. It's just rosin for a stringed instrument bow, melted and mixed with castor oil. You can vary the ratio depending on how hard you want it. If it's hard, you have to heat it to soften it. More castor oil makes it softer - more grease or putty like. You can also use it to hold the friction-fit section in the barrel (and a harder variant works better for that).

    Again, kudos on your first attempt and ignore the "but it ain't perfect" criticisms. Most first attempts aren't. I bet Brad Torelli or some other penmeister could tell lots of stories of "first attempt" disasters.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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