Thread for snipe, snark, and ad hominem grandstanding

[TSherbs]

Pots are fashioned from clay but it's the hollow that makes a pot work
--Laozi (transl. Red Pine)

Red Pine (Bill Porter) also did a translation of one of my favorite poets: Han Shan.

I've got a Cold Mountain collection. Fabulous.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I am a big fan of the 'art poets' so may have to look for a copy of Cold Mountain. That book cover is an image to ponder!

[Chip]

Heard about Han Shan from a fellow poet, Gary Snyder, who translated some of his poems years ago.

Born Thirty Years Ago

Thirty years ago I was born into the world.
A thousand, ten thousand miles I've roamed.
By rivers where the green grass grows thick,
Beyond the border where the red sands fly.
I brewed potions in a vain search for life everlasting,
I read books, I sang songs of history,
And today I've come home to Cold Mountain
To pillow my head on the stream and wash my ears.

According to oral tradition, Han Shan (Cold Mountain) and his mate Shih-Te were hermits who fled to the mountains of eastern China, where they carved poems into the cliffs, during the T'ang Dynasty. No one knows who he was, when he lived and died, or whether he actually existed. In the Chinese Buddhist tradition, Han Shan and his sidekick Shih-Te are honored as emanations of the bodhisattvas Mañjuśrī and Samantabhadra.

Before Red Pine's work, the only available translation of the whole collection was by Burton Watson.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Cool.

I didn't know about the connection with the Beats (another area of special interest for me). I have three books by Barry Miles styled as portraits of Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs, and I don't recall any mention of this connection. Just checking the indexes of each is similarly unrevealing.

[Chuck Naill]

“ Congratulations to Viktor Orban on winning a victory well deserved! He’s leading Hungary the right way and we need this in America.”
Majorie Taylor Green

Orban is an ally of Putin and slammed Ukrainian President. He is an authoritarian.

Americans need to understand what their elected office holders think.

[724Seney]

“ Congratulations to Viktor Orban on winning a victory well deserved! He’s leading Hungary the right way and we need this in America.”
Majorie Taylor Green

Orban is an ally of Putin and slammed Ukrainian President. He is an authoritarian.

Americans need to understand what their elected office holders think.

I assume you mean those that CAN think?

Unfortunately your boy Joe is brain dead.
Glad to post some well documented quotes if you wish.

And Kamela???
Don't get me started!!!!!

[Bold2013]

Hey dementia is no laughing matter.

[TSherbs]

“ Congratulations to Viktor Orban on winning a victory well deserved! He’s leading Hungary the right way and we need this in America.”
Majorie Taylor Green....

Oh, Georgia. She's yours.

[TSherbs]

Heard about Han Shan from a fellow poet, Gary Snyder, who translated some of his poems years ago.

Born Thirty Years Ago

Thirty years ago I was born into the world.
A thousand, ten thousand miles I've roamed.
By rivers where the green grass grows thick,
Beyond the border where the red sands fly.
I brewed potions in a vain search for life everlasting,
I read books, I sang songs of history,
And today I've come home to Cold Mountain
To pillow my head on the stream and wash my ears.

According to oral tradition, Han Shan (Cold Mountain) and his mate Shih-Te were hermits who fled to the mountains of eastern China, where they carved poems into the cliffs, during the T'ang Dynasty. No one knows who he was, when he lived and died, or whether he actually existed. In the Chinese Buddhist tradition, Han Shan and his sidekick Shih-Te are honored as emanations of the bodhisattvas Mañjuśrī and Samantabhadra.

Before Red Pine's work, the only available translation of the whole collection was by Burton Watson.

This is my edition/translation (Shambhala Press, 2009)

[Empty_of_Clouds]

It can be difficult choosing among translations, so I guess I should try and find some examples of the same poems translated by different people and see which I prefer.

[TSherbs]

It can be difficult choosing among translations, so I guess I should try and find some examples of the same poems translated by different people and see which I prefer.

Like inks in sample vials?

[TSherbs]

Heard about Han Shan from a fellow poet, Gary Snyder, who translated some of his poems years ago.

Born Thirty Years Ago

Thirty years ago I was born into the world.
A thousand, ten thousand miles I've roamed.
By rivers where the green grass grows thick,
Beyond the border where the red sands fly.
I brewed potions in a vain search for life everlasting,
I read books, I sang songs of history,
And today I've come home to Cold Mountain
To pillow my head on the stream and wash my ears..

EOC,
For what it is worth, here is the same poem from the translation by Seaton (Shambhala):

XLVII (Han Shan)

I was born just thirty years ago,
but I’ve wandered a million miles already.
Along the River through the green grass on the banks,
out to the borderlands, where the red dust roils.
Chewed herbs, cooked up alchemical elixirs,
trying to become an Immortal.
Read all the Writings, chanted the Histories aloud,
trying to learn them all by heart . . .
Today I’m on my way
home to Cold Mountain.
There, I’ll bed down in the creek,
just to wash out my ears.

[Chip]

This is my edition/translation (Shambhala Press, 2009)

That's gorgeous. A belated birthday present, perhaps.

[Chip]

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Looked for a copy of 'The clouds should know me by now...' at the Book Depo (best prices anywhere!). Not in print alas. :/

[724Seney]

Being allowed to or able to interpret information differently is consistent with being an individual. There is a danger in any society when people use name calling and intimidation because others do not share their opinions. Opinions are not facts

Hypocrisy 101
As taught by Professor Chuck Naill
Teaching Assistants: Teddy & Chippy

[TSherbs]

Looked for a copy of 'The clouds should know me by now...' at the Book Depo (best prices anywhere!). Not in print alas. :/

This title I don't know.

[Chip]

It can be difficult choosing among translations, so I guess I should try and find some examples of the same poems translated by different people and see which I prefer.

I enjoy comparing translations, with several versions of The Iliad, The Odyssey, Beowulf, and other classics on my shelves.

Here's a link to an article I liked.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page...l-translations

I studied Mandarin for a while and tried some interlineal translations, writing the literal meaning for each character, then constructing poetic lines.

Leaving town for the Wind River Mountains
(after 'Farewell to Wei-feng, Going to Far-South Mountain'
by the monk Hsi-Chou.)

On the Divide, new grasses under frost.
Below, the bent pines limp in crowds.
Climbing here to stare out from the edge
past melting snow, gone, a thousand miles.

A gasp for breath, this wanderer, this ghost.
All this deadwood--let it lie unburnt.
How many summits probe the moon's full breast?
And then, voices cry out from the dark.

[TSherbs]

It can be difficult choosing among translations, so I guess I should try and find some examples of the same poems translated by different people and see which I prefer.

I enjoy comparing translations, with several versions of The Iliad, The Odyssey, Beowulf, and other classics on my shelves.

Here's a link to an article I liked.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page...l-translations

I studied Mandarin for a while and tried some interlineal translations, writing the literal meaning for each character, then constructing poetic lines.

Leaving town for the Wind River Mountains
(after 'Farewell to Wei-feng, Going to Far-South Mountain'
by the monk Hsi-Chou.)

On the Divide, new grasses under frost.
Below, the bent pines limp in crowds.
Climbing here to stare out from the edge
past melting snow, gone, a thousand miles.

A gasp for breath, this wanderer, this ghost.
All this deadwood--let it lie unburnt.
How many summits probe the moon's full breast?
And then, voices cry out from the dark.

I love the line about bent pines that limp in crowds. Nicely done!

[Chip]

I love the line about bent pines that limp in crowds. Nicely done!

I should dig out the worksheet for that one to see what the original characters were. Sam Hamill, head of Copper Canyon Press (which published the Red Pine translations) gave a workshop when I was a grad student, many years ago. Interesting guy. He died in 2018. He liked the translation, but turned down my first book.