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Thread: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

  1. #21
    Senior Member Marsilius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    I love this color, but have found the crud (I like that terms boogers, too) to be disconnecting. My favorite pen tends to skip a bit or be a bit dry, so this ink seems to be tricky in it. Oh well. Maybe I'll try again, after looking at these great pictures.

  2. #22
    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    Yeah I think this ink really THRIVES in a wet pen with an old ebonite feed that just pours buckets of ink down the nibs.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Jeph's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    OK, so now an update after day 2 of experiments.

    Last night I rinsed both the Pelikan and Sheaffer nibs with water.
    This morning when I got to work, I made the fox jump twice with the Pelikan to make sure that plenty of ink was available at the feed, then capped it and laid it down. I then proceeded to use the Sheaffer uncapped. It took about an hour for the boogers to form. After 3 hours, unlike the M nib on the Pelikan, my (stupid) fine nib on the Sheaffer was complaining. When I was not writing something between a medium and broad line, it was skipping and dragging. So I took a picture and rinsed off the Sheaffer nib. For the rest of the day I continued to use the Sheaffer, but I replaced the cap after every use. After 5 hours of use this way, and about twice the amount of notes written, there was not an ink booger to be found on the Sheaffer. As expected, there was also not an ink booger to be found on the Pelikan.

    I should note that although my Sheaffer does have 2 air holes in the cap, they are below the inner cap and the inner cap is in good shape so very little air actually gets to the nib.

    As a parallel experiment, before I went to bed last night I took a clean, loose SS nib and dipped in the Ancient Copper and then laid it on a paper towel. When I got home from work this evening, the ink had simply dried. There were no boogers. So it looks like the phenomenon requires something less than an hour exposed to air AND a very narrow contact surface, such as along the feed slot, air hole and nib edges. I might should also mention that I have no air conditioning either at home or at work.

    I do not think that I have the knowledge or equipment to take this any farther so as suggested I will contact Diamine and see what they have to say about the matter.

    AC Sheaffer Nib.jpgDipped Nib.jpg

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  5. #24
    FPG Donor ♕ KrazyIvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    What about placing a small amount of ink in a vial and leave it open to the elements?
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    I love this ink. I didn't have much crud, but I was using it as a sample in a Rotring 600, and there's not much exposed feed on those pens. I have had Diamine Meadow funk up a Wing Sung with an exposed feed and an inlaid nib. Thanks for doing the science for us, Jeph.

  8. #26
    Senior Member snedwos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    I think it's not so much a thin contact surface, as well as time, so much as a constant supply of ink. The ink dries slowly, so instead of clogging the pen completely (as other inks would), the thickened, partially dry ink continues to ooze out as wet ink from the reservoir replaces it and pushes it out. This makes bubbles/droplets that eventually dry into those magnificent stalactitic and stalagmitic formations.

    This is why the film on the loose nib dried flat, because that was all the ink that was available to it.

    Clearly this ink doesn't go straight from wet to dry, but goes through an extended sticky phase. Do we see this effect with other slow-drying inks?
    "What are moon-letters?" asked the hobbit full of excitement. He loved maps, as I have told you before; and he also loved runes and letters, and cunning handwriting, though when he wrote himself it was a bit thin and spidery.

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  10. #27
    Senior Member Jeph's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    First, I very much agree with everything that snedwos described. That perfecly matches what I saw.

    Second, it has now been a week and no response from Diamine. That is disappointing.

    Third, last weekend I flushed out the Sheaffer and a blob of pre-boogers (ink snot?) did dump out of the barrel. There was also a slight amount of ink in the cap (slight=on third capfull of water the water dumped out clear) but not much. The barrel did rinse completely.

    Fourth, I finally got some real (Rhodia, Leuchtturm) paper and this ink looks even better. I am not going to stop using it.

    Fifth, I got my bottle of Diamine Red Dragon today, so that is going into the Sheaffer to test if another Diamine red will do the same thing.

    There is no 6.

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    Newjelan (August 26th, 2013)

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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    Thank you Jeph and snedwos. That is encouraging at least to me. I have been holding back purchasing a bottle even though I really like the color. I think I can deal with oozing ink. I was just concerned it might have been some sort of contamination.
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  13. #29
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    When I used a sample of Ancient Copper, in at least two pens it developed not just nib creep, but it actually grew crystalline structures all over the feed and nib. It was cool to look at through the loupe, not so much for the writing! I ended up not purchasing.

    No other Diamine inks have done this for me, and I have been using Red Dragon in many pens for a good two years without a single problem. It is my go-to red ink.
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  14. #30
    Senior Member Newjelan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    Thanks Jeph, for making me laugh out loud several times when reading your posts.

    BTW, I also have ancient Copper and have used it in several pens with no boogers, crud or snot - but then I always cap my pen as soon as I stop writing.

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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Newjelan View Post
    Thanks Jeph, for making me laugh out loud several times when reading your posts.

    BTW, I also have ancient Copper and have used it in several pens with no boogers, crud or snot - but then I always cap my pen as soon as I stop writing.
    That is also very encouraging as I also cap my pens in a similar manner.
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  17. #32
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    That is also very encouraging as I also cap my pens in a similar manner.
    As do I. In my case, it didn't change the fact that the ink behaved oddly. Mind you, it was nothing that damaged the pen, as BSB can do, but it was a nuisance, and caused me to stop putting AC in my pens. Best to try a sample...
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

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  18. #33
    Senior Member Jeph's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    I put some ancient copper in my TWSBI 580 for a couple of days so I could see what was going on inside the barrel. There was booger growth, although very slowly. When I left it upcapped and nib up for about 4 hours there were some small red dots clinging to the sides of the barrel, but when I turned the pen over and back they went away. One difference here is that although the growth was relatively small, it did appear to interfere with the flow of this pen. I did have the 1.5mm nib installed, which has flow problems anyway, but if I rinsed the nib it flowed normally again.

    I have Red Dragon installed in 3 different pens and so far there have been no ink boogers. Not only did I leave the pens uncapped, but one of them I even shook to force some ink splatter onto the nib. The splatters just dried normally.

  19. #34
    Senior Member Carole's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    I was inspired to try some tests with vintage pens after reading this thread. With all of the pens, if I capped them soon after writing, no problems at all except some ink on the nib. Uncapped, different story.

    Here's what happened with Ancient Copper in a Moore L-72. Photo #1 is after leaving it uncapped for 20 minutes, then writing with it for 10 minutes. Photo #2 is after leaving it uncapped on the desk for about 30 minutes. Sorry the bad focus but hope you can see the build-up of sludge along the nib. However, there was no problem writing with it even after photo #2: no skips or flow issues.

    This isn't even close to the science performed by Jeph and everyone, but after I spilled ink on the table it looked so much like arterial blood spatter I had to take a picture of it. (Didn't Eric once say there was a Scientific Institute of Nib Science located somewhere near JPL? If so, I bet they'd be interested in consulting with you, Jeph, even if Diamine isn't talking.)

    A.C. 1.jpg A.C. 2.jpg
    Last edited by Carole; August 26th, 2013 at 08:55 PM.

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    Jeph (August 27th, 2013)

  21. #35
    Senior Member Jeph's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamine Ancient Copper Ink Review

    I thought that it would be good to do an update. I have now had Diamine Ancinet Copper in my TWSBI 580 (so I can see the guts) for 2 solid months without maintenance. Once a week I would make the fox jump one time and then put it away until the next week. There are no boogers on the feed, there are no boogers or separation of colors within the barrel and there is no discoloration within the pen. I think that I have confirmed snedwos' assertion about it being a drying phenomenon. In my mind, I have also confimed that the ink itself is not dangerous to my pens. The caveat is that pens that are prone to be left uncapped, or that do not cap reasonably sealed should avoid this ink due to the annoyance of booger formation.

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    Carole (October 23rd, 2013), DaftDabbler (December 29th, 2013), KrazyIvan (October 22nd, 2013)

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