Does anyone sell anything?

[mmd]

Actually, greed is boring and has nothing to do with my/our hobby.

Well, that might work for a hobbist but not pen dealer/resalers. The model of a pen dealer is really just

1. Lowball to buy pens well below what the dealer considers to be fair
2. Create hype around the newly acquired pen by good photos, posts etc
3. Sell the pen well above the fair

It doesn't really matter if they are trying to buy/sell on ebay/here/pen shows/their own website and I've seen good amount of them doing the 3 steps everyday everywhere...... It's a legit way to do business but many of the resalers go way too far. I typically cringe when they do step 2 and 3 and cringe occasionally when they do step 1.

I prefer the friendly atmosphere among enthusiasts as it is here.

I also kind of disagree with this. First there might be a decent amount of survivor bias (you are still here because you like to buy/sell here and whoever dislike here has moved on to somewhere else) and second, I don't think being pen euthusiasts just magically make people better. I've experience about the same amount of lowballing pretty much anywhere I buy/sell and the worst incident happened here when someone bought a pen from me, sprung the nib, said some bad words (the pen is such poor quality, the nib doesn't write well) and then returned the pen to me without mentioning he sprung the nib.

These days, I typically take it for granted that if I am going to sell anything, I take the annoyance of people lowballing and the risk of bad buyers. There is just no way out of this.

[christof]

Well, that might work for a hobbist but not pen dealer/resalers. The model of a pen dealer is really just

1. Lowball to buy pens well below what the dealer considers to be fair
2. Create hype around the newly acquired pen by good photos, posts etc
3. Sell the pen well above the fair

It doesn't really matter if they are trying to buy/sell on ebay/here/pen shows/their own website and I've seen good amount of them doing the 3 steps everyday everywhere...... It's a legit way to do business but many of the resalers go way too far. I typically cringe when they do step 2 and 3 and cringe occasionally when they do step 1.

I prefer the friendly atmosphere among enthusiasts as it is here.

I also kind of disagree with this. First there might be a decent amount of survivor bias (you are still here because you like to buy/sell here and whoever dislike here has moved on to somewhere else) and second, I don't think being pen euthusiasts just magically make people better. I've experience about the same amount of lowballing pretty much anywhere I buy/sell and the worst incident happened here when someone bought a pen from me, sprung the nib, said some bad words (the pen is such poor quality, the nib doesn't write well) and then returned the pen to me without mentioning he sprung the nib.

These days, I typically take it for granted that if I am going to sell anything, I take the annoyance of people lowballing and the risk of bad buyers. There is just no way out of this.

I am sorry to hear about your bad experiences. However, I can not confirm that (and I've been here in the forum for a while).
But of course you are right, one can always have bad luck.
Nevertheless, I think that the chances to have bad luck are less in this forum than elsewhere (especially ebay).

Well, that might work for a hobbist but not pen dealer/resalers. The model of a pen dealer is really just

PS: I have not seen many professional pen dealers here, selling pens.

PPS: and yes, I am a hobbyist. That'ts what I wrote first.

[Woody]

I’ve sold many pens with fellow geeks. No problems at all. Even more so since the FPN classified shut down.
-Bill

[Jon Szanto]

Therefore I give ebay a wide berth. I prefer the friendly atmosphere among enthusiasts as it is here.

Christof, I completely agree. My comment ("Greed") referred to two things: the influx of "sellers" who have no interest in the community here - or the pen community at large - and are merely in it for the money. That sentiment is paired with a very observable upswing, in a number of various sales platforms, of people asking extremely high prices in an effort to not only maximize their profit, but to raise the 'accepted' prices of pens, putting them into higher and higher price ranges. Gouging prices just like the oil companies. No one will get filthy rich off of this little hobby but that isn't stopping them. I don't happen to care for it one bit.

[TSherbs]

So, the answer to the original post appears to be a YES, sales have been and still are happening here. Maybe not for everyone. I have had some pens get no interest at all (on reddit, actually). It wasn't the fault of the site, not one bit.

But this is a pretty small site, with small-scale traffic. But the For Sale thread often lists the most current visitors.

[christof]

Therefore I give ebay a wide berth. I prefer the friendly atmosphere among enthusiasts as it is here.

Christof, I completely agree. My comment ("Greed") referred to two things: the influx of "sellers" who have no interest in the community here - or the pen community at large - and are merely in it for the money. That sentiment is paired with a very observable upswing, in a number of various sales platforms, of people asking extremely high prices in an effort to not only maximize their profit, but to raise the 'accepted' prices of pens, putting them into higher and higher price ranges. Gouging prices just like the oil companies. No one will get filthy rich off of this little hobby but that isn't stopping them. I don't happen to care for it one bit.

Jon,

I am sure you are right with your observations. Nevertheless, I have a somewhat nuanced view of these things. Perhaps that has to do with the fact that I maintain friendly relationships with several professionals in our hobby. When looking for spare parts or very rare pens, I depend on them.

My statement was also intended more as a pleading to buy and sell on this forum. For the most part, enthusiasts and not dealers frequent here. On the contrary, and to give just one example, Ron Zorn graces us from time to time with his presence and lets us share his knowledge. I appreciate that very much and am grateful to him.

So I still doubt that there are many professionals here on this forum for selling pens.

[christof]

For the most part, enthusiasts and not dealers frequent here.

Not sure if this is correct, and don't have time to sift through all the sales posts to find out. However, when I come to the site and hit the 'what's new' button there are usually some sales by people who are indeed only selling here and are not what I would think of as enthusiasts. It's got to the point that l have a mental list of sellers I just won't look at. That also goes to trying to sell myself and getting hit up by those same people just looking for inventory to turn over (note my recent FC pen case 'sale' which I had to take elsewhere).

amazing. our perceptions regarding the forum seem to be far apart...

[singlechange]

I am new here but have been a member of FPN before. I am not a dealer or a big collector. My experience is that any forum classified's have better selection, fair prices, but buyers are more savvy and therefore looking for lower prices. Ebay has wider market, prices are all over the place so bargains can be gotten, more selection, more likely to run into unsavory buyers. If your personality is more towards bargain hunting there are other online markets, like etsy, mercari, poshmark, Facebook, craigslist, offerup. I picked up a 1950's Montblanc ballpoint pen for a lot less than $100 and that is now my daily writer (used at post office, banks, addressing mailing envelops, keeping in my coat pocket, etc.).

[Jon Szanto]

I am sure you are right with your observations. Nevertheless, I have a somewhat nuanced view of these things. Perhaps that has to do with the fact that I maintain friendly relationships with several professionals in our hobby. When looking for spare parts or very rare pens, I depend on them.

My statement was also intended more as a pleading to buy and sell on this forum. For the most part, enthusiasts and not dealers frequent here. On the contrary, and to give just one example, Ron Zorn graces us from time to time with his presence and lets us share his knowledge. I appreciate that very much and am grateful to him.

So I still doubt that there are many professionals here on this forum for selling pens.

Oh, I think you are still very much on point. When in haste, or when I don't dampen my naturally-occurring fiery emotions, I can be blunt. Moreso than is helpful and your nuanced approach is very much appreciated. What I was not making clear was not that I felt sales here had become a complete free-market sales forum, as I still feel the bulk of people are enthusiasts selling to other enthusiasts. No, my point was in the world outside of the FPG area, there is a distinct uptick in rather mercenary sellers, opting for as large a profit as possible, and I am starting to see that mindset and vendorage appear here. I hope we can keep the majority of the sales focused as before, but it was always just a nice coincidence, and no way to enforce it.

I had a great purchase last week from one of our regular sellers here and am very happy to have this opportunity. Ini fact, I am now a repeat customer.

[christof]

Not sure if I had enough informations about you to make such a statement. Do you?

also, I can‘t see how our geographic position has influence to our perceptions regarding the forum…? Anyway, I'm afraid we're drifting off topic.

[TSherbs]

Not sure if I had enough informations about you to make such a statement. Do you?

also, I can‘t see how our geographic position has influence to our perceptions regarding the forum…? Anyway, I'm afraid we're drifting off topic.

Well, I'll say this: this forum is dominated by residents of the USA. Anyone from outside the US, perticularly regarding sales, prices, shipping costs, and other factors, may have widely diverging experiences and outlooks toward the purchasing of items through this website. Many of us, including myself, have limited sales (shipping) to CONUS, and this aspect is likely going to produce different reactions from members from other locations around the world.

Just for starters.

And otherwise, we suggest more about our asset status in our posts than we often realize (not specifically, necessarily, but generally).

[christof]

That was not the question.

(Besides, I am familiar with horrendous postage costs outside of the U.S.A..)

The question was about why the forum is perceived by two people so differently.

Since the person who posted a thesis in need of explanation does not consider it necessary to explain this and his assumptions, I will not discuss this further either. I have already posted my opinion about the OT and will not continue.

Have a nice day.

[TSherbs]

What is worse, eBay had done some tinkering with the whole "watch" thing of late. When someone watches your listing now, the seller starts getting dunned to offer the watcher a lower price. So what happens, people start to watch your item in expectation ...This is what frustrates me about selling both here and on eBay; no mater how fair your price is, nobody will go for it until they get their low-ball offer met. It angers me to get PMs with offers a

I understand your frustration, but if truly "nobody" bites on your offering price, then what can you really say? That's the "market" at that moment. You can wait, or lower the price. The life of a seller.

[markofp]

I understand your frustration, but if truly "nobody" bites on your offering price, then what can you really say? That's the "market" at that moment. You can wait, or lower the price. The life of a seller.

It's not about "biting". It's about what is fair. Let me explain it this way:

A few years back, a neighbor down the street had a garage sale, and I went down to say hello and see what he was selling. Among the old toys and clothes and such was a box of about thirty DVDs that he was offering for $2.00 apiece. I noticed another person arrive and quite quickly scan all the items for sale, and I was standing next to my neighbor when the guy strode up to him and offered him $2.00 for the entire box. Not just for one, which was the asking price, but $2.00 for all thirty. My neighbor, of course, said no, and the guy turned on his heel and drove off.

Now, judging by the posts here, I gather that many of you would have taken the other guy's side because, hey, that's what the market is, and that's how capitalism works, and my neighbor didn't have to sell if he didn't like the offer, and that's "the life of a seller" and all that. Frankly, though, I thought the other guy was being an offensive and insulting ass.

Perhaps I'm being grotesquely naive about this, but if I am offering a brand new pen for 50% off retail, and you offer me a small fraction of that price, then you are either a fool or you think that I am one. And it's that kind of behavior that not only insults me, but demeans the hobby as well.

[TSherbs]

I understand your frustration, but if truly "nobody" bites on your offering price, then what can you really say? That's the "market" at that moment. You can wait, or lower the price. The life of a seller.

It's not about "biting". It's about what is fair. Let me explain it this way:

A few years back, a neighbor down the street had a garage sale, and I went down to say hello and see what he was selling. Among the old toys and clothes and such was a box of about thirty DVDs that he was offering for $2.00 apiece. I noticed another person arrive and quite quickly scan all the items for sale, and I was standing next to my neighbor when the guy strode up to him and offered him $2.00 for the entire box. Not just for one, which was the asking price, but $2.00 for all thirty. My neighbor, of course, said no, and the guy turned on his heel and drove off.

Now, judging by the posts here, I gather that many of you would have taken the other guy's side because, hey, that's what the market is, and that's how capitalism works, and my neighbor didn't have to sell if he didn't like the offer, and that's "the life of a seller" and all that. Frankly, though, I thought the other guy was being an offensive and insulting ass.

Perhaps I'm being grotesquely naive about this, but if I am offering a brand new pen for 50% off retail, and you offer me a small fraction of that price, then you are either a fool or you think that I am one. And it's that kind of behavior that not only insults me, but demeans the hobby as well.

Thanks, and yes, I know what you mean.

I guess I come from it this way: Selling things on the internet is like trying to buy or sell in a bazaar: many people on both sides are trying to leverage a deal in their favor, and ego can be involved in both directions (the pleasure of knowing that you got one over on the other guy). There are those who believe that only the dumb or innocent do not try to leverage a deal in their favor (indeed, some see the cat and mouse game of negotiation as a form of mutual respect). Are some offers absurd? Of course. But so is, perhaps, paying asking price, even if it is a good deal to start with. How does a buyer know that he can't perhaps get an even better deal?

[Zhivago]

A few years back, a neighbor down the street had a garage sale, and I went down to say hello and see what he was selling. Among the old toys and clothes and such was a box of about thirty DVDs that he was offering for $2.00 apiece. I noticed another person arrive and quite quickly scan all the items for sale, and I was standing next to my neighbor when the guy strode up to him and offered him $2.00 for the entire box. Not just for one, which was the asking price, but $2.00 for all thirty. My neighbor, of course, said no, and the guy turned on his heel and drove off.

About 15 years ago, a friend of mine had a scanner and made a pretty good amount of money buying and reselling cds and dvds. He would buy them at pawn shops and garage sales and then resell them at ebay or Amazon.

He also knew a number of people who did the same thing. He told me a number of anecdotes similar to the one above but also others of "scanners" (or whatever one should call them) finding a cd, dvd or even VHS tape for a very low price at a garage sale and either from scanning it right there or just knowing from experience that this dvd or cd being sold for $2 was actually worth over $50 or more. Not surprisingly, none of these anecdotes ended with the scanner telling the garage seller that the item was worth way more than what he was asking for it.

At what point does such a thing become morally dubious? How much profit can the reseller make before we think of him as a jerk who knowingly ripped someone off. If this same garage seller was selling an old pen that belonged to his father for $20 and you knew it to be worth more like $250, would you tell him? Edit: I'm asking these in general not specifically to markofp.

As for the main topic at hand, I share your frustration. I get annoyed when I get a pm here asking if I'll knock another $20 or so off a pen already listed at a large mark down. But, again, selling pens at this site and some others is very, very, very!!! much a buyer's market for most pens. It is a little bit of a different story if you are Richard Binder or the Kennedys or the Andersons and you are selling at your own web site. Then you'll get some good or even great prices.

[Zhivago]

It seems ebay is now requiring sellers to upload pictures of their driver's license, state ID or passport to continue selling at ebay. They claim this is to "verify" the seller's identity. Has anyone else who sells on ebay also received this notification?

Oh, if you have a pending payout for a sale or sales, they won't release "your" (lol) money to you until you "verify" your identity via one of the ways mentioned above.

[mmd]

This seems to be off topic..... But I remember once Ebay asked for my SSN or something like that. I feel that's what IRS or the fed asked for them to do.

[Zhivago]

The thread had veered a bit, so I figured no harm in posting the above here.

Asking for a scan of a DL or state ID or passport is a lot more than just having your SS on file for tax purposes.

[Zhivago]

I haven't sold anything on the Bay for a while and haven't been asked for proof of ID. Perhaps it happens when a sale is made? At any rate I don't show my ID to anyone who doesn't have the authority to ask for it.

It is new and has something to do with ebay's new "managed payments" system.

The phone rep I spoke to tonight at first seemed to suggest that only some sellers were being asked to do this, but then later said it is or will be required of all sellers.

It seems almost ludicrous and quaint to be as upset by this as I am. Lack of privacy and excessive invasiveness are now the norm. I am still tempted to just close my ebay account. I don't buy there much and I don't like selling there at all. Unfortunately, besides pens, I still have a decent amount of items that are worth trying to sell, and I'm aware of no better (or any real) alternative to do that at.