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Thread: Aligning the Tines

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    Default Aligning the Tines

    It is my understanding that the nib vein should get narrower from the breather hole to the tip, but that the tine tips should not quite touch. I have a #6 nib I'm trying to adjust. The tips of the tines are touching, rather solidly together. I can use the old trick of placing a finger on top of the nib, and then pressing the tip of the nib on a hard surface, in order to separate the tips. This works, but the result is an ever so slight upward bend to the nib. No big deal except that now, the bottom of the nib is no longer resting on the end of the feed.

    How to I get those tine tips apart without bending the tip of the nib upwards, thus raising the end of the nib up off the feed???

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    I use a brass shim. It may take around 40 passes to get a meaningful change but it does work normally. You could always heat set the feed so it sits better as well.

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    I have a couple of Goulet's recommended shims. I use them to floss the vein. How do you use them to adjust the tines?

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCyclePilot View Post
    I have a couple of Goulet's recommended shims. I use them to floss the vein. How do you use them to adjust the tines?
    It's takes a while hence you will have to do it 20 + times before you notice a difference. But if you floss it through the full length of the slit you will slowly increase the gap. It works will for me and is more safe then applying pressure to the nib.

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Okay, thank you.

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    My impression has been that they’re supposed to be touching if it’s a flex nib and ever so slightly apart if it’s not. Either way, I believe having the tines taper towards the tip is critical for the ink to travel via capillary action.

    Re shims, that’s a potentially dangerous proposition. I confess I’ve done that myself, but it’s not without significant risk.* Perhaps someone with more experience in nib work can share some advice regarding proper technique with pliers.

    *https://vintagepensblog.blogspot.com...shims.html?m=1

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Quote Originally Posted by es9 View Post
    My impression has been that they’re supposed to be touching if it’s a flex nib and ever so slightly apart if it’s not. Either way, I believe having the tines taper towards the tip is critical for the ink to travel via capillary action.

    Re shims, that’s a potentially dangerous proposition. I confess I’ve done that myself, but it’s not without significant risk.* Perhaps someone with more experience in nib work can share some advice regarding proper technique with pliers.

    *https://vintagepensblog.blogspot.com...shims.html?m=1
    I've never had much luck using shims for anything other than flossing the vein, or the feel channel. Metal tools of any kind are an absolute no-no. It's tedious, but the best way I've found is this: with the nib and feed installed in the pen, insert your thumbnails between the feed and nib shoulder on each side, and pull outward. I was hoping someone else had a more effective and less tedious method.

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    I watched a You Tube nib tuning video that showed me how to place the brass shim between the tines then very carefully use slight pressure to pull on both ends of the brass shim to move that tine very slightly sideways away from the other tine. I actually prefer my tines almost touching so I'm talking about a minuscule amount here. I usually only try this if one of the tines looks slightly shorter because it's bent in a bit.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Well, I'm losing this battle... I have three Jowo/Leonardo nibs, and all three are the same way - the tips of the tines are pressed hard together, and anything I do that spreads them apart even the tiniest amount causes the nib to lift up off the feed a tiny bit. I've flossed with brass shims countless times, pressed the tip against a hard surface or my fingernail for several seconds, pulled at the shoulders with my thumbs, watched countless YouTube videos, and nothing works! I've never had this much trouble with a nib before - much less three. I'm being very careful not to overdo it and damage the nib, and I'm not sure what to do next...

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Are they gold or steel?

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Quote Originally Posted by es9 View Post
    Are they gold or steel?
    Steel, #6...

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I watched a You Tube nib tuning video that showed me how to place the brass shim between the tines then very carefully use slight pressure to pull on both ends of the brass shim to move that tine very slightly sideways away from the other tine. I actually prefer my tines almost touching so I'm talking about a minuscule amount here. I usually only try this if one of the tines looks slightly shorter because it's bent in a bit.
    You have to be careful with that one, or you'll wind up with the tips splayed out, while the vein itself hasn't widened. You'll wind up with a "Y" shaped vein, and a ruined nib.

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCyclePilot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I watched a You Tube nib tuning video that showed me how to place the brass shim between the tines then very carefully use slight pressure to pull on both ends of the brass shim to move that tine very slightly sideways away from the other tine. I actually prefer my tines almost touching so I'm talking about a minuscule amount here. I usually only try this if one of the tines looks slightly shorter because it's bent in a bit.
    You have to be careful with that one, or you'll wind up with the tips splayed out, while the vein itself hasn't widened. You'll wind up with a "Y" shaped vein, and a ruined nib.
    I'm very careful and I've never ruined a nib or splayed out any nib tines. I haven't bent any tines upwards off of the feed either.

    Edited when I found the video: I'm pretty sure it was this SBRE Brown video. It starts @6.01 minutes.
    (Oh and I would never, ever use any of the barrels of any of my pens as an object to manipulate the nib tines on.)
    Last edited by Chrissy; April 15th, 2022 at 11:52 PM.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCyclePilot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I watched a You Tube nib tuning video that showed me how to place the brass shim between the tines then very carefully use slight pressure to pull on both ends of the brass shim to move that tine very slightly sideways away from the other tine. I actually prefer my tines almost touching so I'm talking about a minuscule amount here. I usually only try this if one of the tines looks slightly shorter because it's bent in a bit.
    You have to be careful with that one, or you'll wind up with the tips splayed out, while the vein itself hasn't widened. You'll wind up with a "Y" shaped vein, and a ruined nib.
    I'm very careful and I've never ruined a nib or splayed out any nib tines. I haven't bent any tines upwards off of the feed either. Wish I could remember whose video I watched.
    Thanks! I've made all the mistakes - learning with cheap Chinese nibs. I finally got the nib in question sorted out, but it took me hours - literally. It was really stubborn. After decades messing with fountain pens, I'm still learning.

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    How to I get those tine tips apart without bending the tip of the nib upwards, thus raising the end of the nib up off the feed???
    Richard Binder's workshop notes are always a handy reference.

    You grab the wings of the nibs with your thumbnails and pull the tines apart. This will usually also create an "inverted Grand Canyon", which you correct next.

    To get the tines closer, you cross them. Take your index finger and cross it over your middle finger. Now cross your middle finger over your index finger. This is what you do with the tines. If you get them too close, pull the wings and start over.

    At the end of the day, it's a matter of repeated "nudges" to get them where you want.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    I've never quite figured out how to do one step in those notes: His step for smoothening the inner edge of the tip is to lift one tine and sand, then repeat for the other. Granted I'm kind of ham-handed, but I can't figure out how to do that without messing up the alignment. Is there something I'm missing?

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Quote Originally Posted by es9 View Post
    I've never quite figured out how to do one step in those notes: His step for smoothening the inner edge of the tip is to lift one tine and sand, then repeat for the other. Granted I'm kind of ham-handed, but I can't figure out how to do that without messing up the alignment. Is there something I'm missing?
    You've got to hold the pen in one hand, and use a finger or thumb to push one tine up slightly (fingernails are useful here). Then with the buff stick in the other hand, you can smooth the inner tine that's exposed - then repeat on the other tine. It usually won't change the alignment, but if you do have to realign, that's just part of the tuning process.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    To get the tines closer, you cross them. Take your index finger and cross it over your middle finger. Now cross your middle finger over your index finger. This is what you do with the tines. If you get them too close, pull the wings and start over.

    At the end of the day, it's a matter of repeated "nudges" to get them where you want.
    It's so much more scary to have to do this with a WE that you just received back from Montblanc following a repair only to remove the cap and find that for some totally inexplicable reason the tines are a couple of mm apart.

    I will add that IMHO it's better to correct misalignment as soon as you possibly can as metal memory might start to kick in the longer you leave the tines misaligned.
    Last edited by Chrissy; April 23rd, 2022 at 02:30 PM.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    Yes, it can be scary until you get the hang of it. A costly pen certainly exacerbates the anxiety.

    Every metal has its own characteristics, but for nibs in general metal memory doesn't 'kick in'. There's elastic deformation and plastic deformation. Elastic deformation is stress that changes the shape temporarily, and the material returns to its original shape when the stress is removed - like a nib being flexed. Plastic deformation is when you exceed the elastic limit, and a new shape is retained - i.e.: a nib being tuned or adjusted (or sprung).

    Point being that there's no clock running on when you need to have adjustments done. You can adjust a nib on a pen even if it has been sitting unused for decades. If you overcome the elastic limit, plastic deformation still occurs.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Aligning the Tines

    It's probably also worth noting that some nibs go exactly where you want them in a few seconds, while others can take hours to achieve the same thing. In my experience, every time you have a couple of easy ones, the next one will be a brute, just to keep you humble. I've also found that different examples of exactly the same nib (say Pelikan 400) will require different treatment. Like people do.

    Time is your best tool.

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