How to approach the teachings of Jesus

[Chuck Naill]

Exactly Chip. We agree experiences are possibly real but not evidence.

Did you understand the "no message" part?

When those experiencing enlightenment, divine presence, or whatever impose their personal interpretations, there's a problem. They take the experience as support or license for their own desires. Pretty evident with the prophets in the bible and evangelical horndogs in the present day.

There is not a problem as long as you don’t impose them on others. I used to say that a man an experience has an advantage over one with a theory.

[Chuck Naill]

...Evangelicals have done a good job destroying the gospel.

I don't care about the book. It's human beings I care about, especially the children..

Odd thing to say when you support killing children in the womb.

Nice try at deflection, Bold.

Are you not capable of acknowledging the sins of your Church leadership? Are you convinced of their perfection, or something? Those humans who stand in the front of the sanctuary and deliver the blood and flesh of Jesus (Eucharist)? Yes, some of those persons have been and are monsters, and your church hierarchy protected them for decades. Jesus scolded false Jews for their sins. Why can't you do that for your false Catholic superiors? They're not perfect. Some, incredibly far from it.

Is he a member of the RCC?

[Lloyd]

Fourth. This is why the Bible is the authority rather than flawed man (no matter how right we think we are, myself included).

Isn't the Bible written (and translated and printed) by flawed men?

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[TSherbs]

...Evangelicals have done a good job destroying the gospel.

I don't care about the book. It's human beings I care about, especially the children..

Odd thing to say when you support killing children in the womb.

Nice try at deflection, Bold.

Are you not capable of acknowledging the sins of your Church leadership? Are you convinced of their perfection, or something? Those humans who stand in the front of the sanctuary and deliver the blood and flesh of Jesus (Eucharist)? Yes, some of those persons have been and are monsters, and your church hierarchy protected them for decades. Jesus scolded false Jews for their sins. Why can't you do that for your false Catholic superiors? They're not perfect. Some, incredibly far from it.

Is he a member of the RCC?

He says not, but he has also said that he is from a Polish and Christian family. I made a statistical assumption, but I don't think that he has said what denomination he is from, although he asked me mine (which I answered).

[TSherbs]

Indifference huh.

I said we should treat them like Canaanites.

Who are the "them," and what does "like Canaanites" mean in our contemporary legal system?

[Chuck Naill]

...Evangelicals have done a good job destroying the gospel.

I don't care about the book. It's human beings I care about, especially the children..

Odd thing to say when you support killing children in the womb.

Nice try at deflection, Bold.

Are you not capable of acknowledging the sins of your Church leadership? Are you convinced of their perfection, or something? Those humans who stand in the front of the sanctuary and deliver the blood and flesh of Jesus (Eucharist)? Yes, some of those persons have been and are monsters, and your church hierarchy protected them for decades. Jesus scolded false Jews for their sins. Why can't you do that for your false Catholic superiors? They're not perfect. Some, incredibly far from it.

Is he a member of the RCC?

He says not, but he has also said that he is from a Polish and Christian family. I made a statistical assumption, but I don't think that he has said what denomination he is from, although he asked me mine (which I answered).

He has revealed precious little except to post verses.

[welch]

Fourth. This is why the Bible is the authority rather than flawed man (no matter how right we think we are, myself included).

Isn't the Bible written (and translated and printed) by flawed men?

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OK, one small comment, and then I'm done.

Lloyd, what you say is exactly the way the Christian tradition sees it. That's why there was such a fight over which books were canonical, and over how to interpret what was read. That's theology and doctrine, and a way it has been for 2,000 years.

In the 20th Century, there arose an idea that "all scripture is God-breathed", a variation of "inspired". All that leads to thnking of the Bible as something like a gigantic piece of philosophy, in which every sentence coheres with all other sentences. Like Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. My own tradition, Methodism, doesn't talk that way, so I find it just weird when I read a call for "a literal interpretation" of the Bible. (Yes, a group centered in the Southeast and Texas will withdraw from the UMC to form a global conservative church based on their notion of Wesleyanism, and, yes, I have followed all that for about fifteen years. I'm tired of it)

[Empty_of_Clouds]

The universe is eternal, a first cause is not required.

What a clear example of a statement without proof, taken on faith.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

It's rare to see an atheist acknowledge the role of faith in his position.

Quantum field theory shows that even in a vacuum state there is energy and therefore action, and that subatomic particles can literally just appear and disappear. It's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of accepting the current or trending theories on the basis of observations made therein.

And as an additional observation I note that you haven't provided any evidence for a god. Could it be that you cannot find any? Or that there simply isn't any?

[TSherbs]

I too have much to say on this, mostly for another time. I was raised in parsonages and spent much time in churches and have seen all sorts of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Baha'is, Buddhists and others. I've seen it all. Purists of any stripe are the worst.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Purists of any stripe are the worst.

Could you say what precisely you mean by purist in this context? There are quite a few leaders who, in my opinion, embody the heart of their teachings. I am not sure whether to refer to them as purists, in the sense that you may mean, even though I consider them as shining examples.

[Bold2013]

TS your assumption of me being RCC was fair considering Poland’s religious make up however I have rejected the belief of transubstantiation in prior posts.

I don’t think we can paint all purists with broad brushstrokes. I think consistency in worldview is a mark of a well throughout belief.

[Lloyd]

I think consistency in worldview is a mark of a well throughout belief.

Or a closed mind.

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[TSherbs]

I think consistency in worldview is a mark of a well throughout belief.

Or a closed mind.

"Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds," Emerson.

[TSherbs]

Purists of any stripe are the worst.

Could you say what precisely you mean by purist in this context? There are quite a few leaders who, in my opinion, embody the heart of their teachings. I am not sure whether to refer to them as purists, in the sense that you may mean, even though I consider them as shining examples.

I mean righteous believers in absolutes with certainty. I've never met one that isn't actually on the inside an unstable personality with streaks of extremism from lack of empathy and functioning humility.

[Chip]

My parents were Mormons, not particularly devout. My mother would dress me in a sportcoat and clip-on bowtie and deposit me on the church steps, then go home (and likely back to bed).

I didn't care for the church service, droning, dumb, and repetitive, and Sunday school, with smarmy bible tales and kids mewing awful songs like Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam drove me nuts.

So after mom dropped me off, I'd dash across the road to the park and lurk in the bushes, watching the rabbits and squirrels, and listening to the birds sing.

The real, believable world.

[Lloyd]

Why would a creator want its creations to use their short lifespans engaging in singing songs to him? Does the creator have an ego problem?

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[Chip]

Especially songs such as this.

[Lloyd]

Especially songs such as this.

I'd convert. At least good southern Baptist music can be worth listening to - even if the meaning is questionable.

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[kazoolaw]

...I note that you haven't provided any evidence for a god. Could it be that you cannot find any? Or that there simply isn't any?

Didn't mean to frustrate you by not responding your schedule.

No and no.

[TSherbs]

My parents were Mormons, not particularly devout. My mother would dress me in a sportcoat and clip-on bowtie and deposit me on the church steps, then go home (and likely back to bed).

I didn't care for the church service, droning, dumb, and repetitive, and Sunday school, with smarmy bible tales and kids mewing awful songs like Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam drove me nuts.

So after mom dropped me off, I'd dash across the road to the park and lurk in the bushes, watching the rabbits and squirrels, and listening to the birds sing.

The real, believable world.

I skipped it a couple times and took my offering money to the arcade.