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Thread: Vaccine thread - part 2

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Thank you. You’ve just reminded me why I don’t post stupid photos or videos.
    He's just trolling with that bullshit. Ignore it.

  2. #102
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    It's a joke, Chuck. Here's another.

    WhyAren'tTheyDead.png
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  3. #103
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Thank you. You’ve just reminded me why I don’t post stupid photos or videos.
    He's just trolling with that bullshit. Ignore it.

    You can see the general topic of this thread without delving into it. You can see who created the thread as well. You have some experience with where this is going to go - because Chuck - but you pop in and post a random whine about it with another random shitpost. Some might even call that trolling.

    Hypocrite.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Here is one for you, @dneal.

    If you want to help people, you tell them the truth. If you want to help yourself yourself, you tell them what they want to hear. Thomas Sowell.

    Should be obvious what you’re doing.

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  6. #105
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Again, you think that "truth" is some objective thing we just discover and then it's settled.

    Science is about questioning, not proclaiming.

    --edit--

    For the record, I really just wanted to post a "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!" meme.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Truth is, vaccines work. Maybe not for all or even 100 percent, but there is truth regarding their legitimate use.

    Since you chose not to do anything, you want to suggest that you are following truth. No medical scientist would agree that doing nothing is a better choice.

    Like I’ve said, do what you want. Be informed or not. I know you’re not stupid, but you do tend to paint yourself into a corner.

  8. #107
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Truth is, vaccines work. Maybe not for all or even 100 percent, but there is truth regarding their legitimate use.
    And there is truth in legitimate concerns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Since you chose not to do anything, you want to suggest that you are following truth. No medical scientist would agree that doing nothing is a better choice.
    I didn't choose to "do nothing". I examined the data available and chose to trust my immune system to protect me against a virus with a 99% survival rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Like I’ve said, do what you want. Be informed or not. I know you’re not stupid, but you do tend to paint yourself into a corner.
    Chuck, I am informed, and continue to refine that. Many credentialed and credible people express concerns about this "vaccine". You and others refuse to consider the content or merit of their reasoning, and label them to make dismissal more convenient. That's the opposite of being informed. Your illogic paints you into a corner. You make absolute claims. Being open to information and being willing to change views as more data is available is (again) the opposite.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  9. #108
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    I realize you think you are informed. The insurrection participants thought the same .

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Thank you. You’ve just reminded me why I don’t post stupid photos or videos.
    He's just trolling with that bullshit. Ignore it.

    You can see the general topic of this thread without delving into it. You can see who created the thread as well. You have some experience with where this is going to go - because Chuck - but you pop in and post a random whine about it with another random shitpost. Some might even call that trolling.

    Hypocrite.
    You and he end up spinning these stupid circles around each other on thread after thread, mirror man. Dozens and dozens of times.

  11. #110
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Thank you. You’ve just reminded me why I don’t post stupid photos or videos.
    He's just trolling with that bullshit. Ignore it.

    You can see the general topic of this thread without delving into it. You can see who created the thread as well. You have some experience with where this is going to go - because Chuck - but you pop in and post a random whine about it with another random shitpost. Some might even call that trolling.

    Hypocrite.
    You and he end up spinning these stupid circles around each other on thread after thread, mirror man. Dozens and dozens of times.
    Ted, stop trying to be someone you’ve shown you’re not able to be. It’s not like your the purveyor or better more more reliable information. Your fuckfests are a testament against your hall monitor attempts.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    If abortion is not legal, forced vaccines are also not legal. I’m pro choice, but only an informed type.

  14. #112
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Where’s the herd immunity? Our research shows why Covid is still wreaking havoc
    Danny Altmann


    ‘Living with the virus’ is proving much harder than the early vaccine success suggested: this fight is far from over

    Danny Altmann is a professor of immunology at Imperial College London

    Fri 1 Jul 2022 10.54 EDT

    We are all so very tired of Covid-19, and there are many other crises to wrestle with. This pandemic has been going on since the beginning of 2020, and a state of hypervigilance can only be maintained for so long. And yet, “just live with it” looks self-evidently too thin a recipe and, currently, not very workable or successful with the emergence of BA.4 and BA.5 Omicron subvariants.

    According to the latest numbers, released today, the UK added more than half a million new Covid infections in the past week, and the estimated number of people with Covid in total was somewhere between 3% and 4% of the population.

    Many have been rather unwell and off work or school, with the associated disruptions to education, healthcare and other vital services. These infections will also inevitably add to the toll of long Covid cases. According to ONS data, the supposedly “mild” waves of Omicron during 2022 have brought more than 619,000 new long Covid cases into the clinical caseload, promising an enduring and miserable legacy from this latest phase.

    Rather than a wall of immunity arising from vaccinations and previous infections, we are seeing wave after wave of new cases and a rapidly growing burden of long-term disease. What’s going on? The latest scientific research has some answers.

    During May and June two new variants, BA.4 and BA.5, progressively displaced the previous Omicron subvariant, BA.2. They are even more transmissible and more immune-evasive. Last week a group of collaborators, including me and a professor of immunology and respiratory medicine, Rosemary Boyton, published a paper in Science, looking comprehensively at immunity to the Omicron family, both in triple-vaccinated people and also in those who then suffered breakthrough infections during the Omicron wave. This lets us examine whether Omicron was, as some hoped, a benign natural booster of our Covid immunity. It turns out that isn’t the case.

    We considered many facets of immunity, including the antibodies most implicated in protection (“neutralising antibodies”), as well as protective “immune memory” in white blood cells. The results tell us it is unsurprising that breakthrough infections were so common. Most people – even when triple-vaccinated – had 20 times less neutralising antibody response against Omicron than against the initial “Wuhan” strain. Importantly, Omicron infection was a poor booster of immunity to further Omicron infections. It is a kind of stealth virus that gets in under the radar without doing too much to alert immune defences. Even having had Omicron, we’re not well protected from further infections.

    Also, to be added to the now complex mix is “immune imprinting”. This is the finding that our immune response to Covid is shaped very differently, depending on our prior exposures – infection in one wave relative to another, plus vaccination. In our study, those who’d been infected in the first wave and then again with Omicron had particularly poor T-cell responses and no boosting of antibodies. That is, some combinations of exposures may leave us poorly protected relative to others.

    Contrary to the myth that we are sliding into a comfortable evolutionary relationship with a common-cold-like, friendly virus, this is more like being trapped on a rollercoaster in a horror film. There’s nothing cold-like or friendly about a large part of the workforce needing significant absences from work, feeling awful and sometimes getting reinfected over and over again, just weeks apart. And that’s before the risk of long Covid. While we now know that the risk of long Covid is somewhat reduced in those who become infected after vaccination, and also less in those from the Omicron than the Delta wave, the absolute numbers are nevertheless worrying.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Yeah, I was recently much more sick than a "common cold." These bugs keep mutating, as is their wont.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Our immune response will be a predictor of what Covid experience.

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    Lloyd (July 1st, 2022)

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2


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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Just so you all know: I'm starting to see signals consistent with COVID infection again. I don't work directly with COVID. I work with Qiagen's Quantiferon Gold Plus TB test. Yes, it's a test for tuberculosis (recent and historical) infection. But the principle of the test is such that indeterminate-low mitogen results are seen in severe COVID. The number of indeterminate test results had plummeted, and those that I saw were mostly due to immunosuppression or immunosuppresive medications. We track those indeterminate results and any explanations because before we started running the test in-house, we were getting about 50% of all test results as indeterminate. The number of severe COVID cases is rising, too. It's nowhere like it was a few months ago--yet.

    I'm trying to decide whether I should get the booster for the old strain now, even though it might be pretty useless, and then get the new booster when it comes out this fall; or just wait for fall and get the new booster. There's also the question of maybe having to get a monkeypox/smallpox booster. I know that I've been just about boostered into smallpox oblivion because of my military service, childhood overseas travel and when I was born, but it's still on my radar. I like to keep at least three weeks between viral vaccinations so that they "take" as fully as possible.

    I'm pretty sure I've had multiple COVID exposures--every so often I just feel like crap and my axillary lymph nodes swell, just as I did about 24 hours after each dose of the vaccine. I didn't, and don't feel crappy enough to take to my bed, but it's noticeable all the same. I figure that's just me fighting off the full infection...again. I mean, I work in a hospital. The cooties are everywhere. That said, my T-cells kick immunological ass. They don't kick enough ass to cause autoimmune disease, but they just shrug at most vaccines, digest the antigenic information, file it away, and charge out swinging when challenged again.
    Last edited by TFarnon; July 8th, 2022 at 01:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Whatever the fuck strain I got three weeks ago kicked my ass for a week and took me 16 days to clear. And I am a teacher with a good immune system. But hell, I felt terrible (I slept at times on the bathroom floor and I am 60+ years old). I am getting every shot/booster that they offer.

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Multiple doses and infections build resistance. The goal for me is to return to normal and if I contract, have a mild experience. So far, that's been my experience. I'd hate running blind trying to avoid.

  23. #119
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Multiple doses and infections build resistance. The goal for me is to return to normal and if I contract, have a mild experience. So far, that's been my experience. I'd hate running blind trying to avoid.
    Multiple infections can lead to long Covid. BA5 may escape prior immune system "training".

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  24. #120
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Multiple doses and infections build resistance. The goal for me is to return to normal and if I contract, have a mild experience. So far, that's been my experience. I'd hate running blind trying to avoid.
    Multiple infections can lead to long Covid. BA5 may escape prior immune system "training".

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Multiple doses plus having an infection is what I meant. However, I have not read that having multiple infections is what causes long Covid. I actually think long term symptoms is not just with one virus. I was bitten by a tick in 2015 and continues to experience symptoms into 2019.

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