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Thread: Vaccine thread - part 2

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    It's not rocket science. People want to discuss these matters. What they would prefer though is to do it in a less combative arena. Your presentation is in question here, not the substance of your arguments.
    Bravo for condensing so much irony, in so many different angles, into one succinct post.
    Thank you I consider it one of my superpowers.
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; May 8th, 2022 at 11:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I still have concerns about the thoroughness of the trials.
    Even "thorough" trials and the official imprimatur of the FDA do not guarantee a vaccine or drug is safe.

    COVID is here to stay, vaccines or not.

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    dneal inserted himself into an argument that had nothing to do with him and got royally triggered. So much for being a dispassionate debater.

    He also posted private correspondence between me and him on a public forum without my permission. So much for being ethical, or even having principles.

    He's happy to dish shit out over here, but acts like a whipped dog when the truth bites. Not normally given to being pleased to see the discomfort of others, however, it's been long overdue and well deserved. Nothing he says from here on in will be given any credence by me, and others should (if they haven't already) approach what he posts with much caution and suspicion.
    Yeah, I’m so triggered I drug it to a different thread.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  5. #44
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I still have concerns about the thoroughness of the trials.
    Even "thorough" trials and the official imprimatur of the FDA do not guarantee a vaccine or drug is safe.

    COVID is here to stay, vaccines or not.
    Yes, and Pfizer has paid criminal fines for previous fraud.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I like it and don't mind what comes with it.
    Awesome. That explains why you post here so often, and perhaps why you and dneal spin into so many dances of aspersions. As he stated, he likes "playing" and "fucking with" people here. Have at it all you want.

    Some of the rest of us have to moderate our involvement in various ways.
    I’ve been reading your posts for a long time. You are in no position to pretend you always take the high road.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    dneal inserted himself into an argument that had nothing to do with him and got royally triggered. So much for being a dispassionate debater.

    He also posted private correspondence between me and him on a public forum without my permission. So much for being ethical, or even having principles.

    He's happy to dish shit out over here, but acts like a whipped dog when the truth bites. Not normally given to being pleased to see the discomfort of others, however, it's been long overdue and well deserved. Nothing he says from here on in will be given any credence by me, and others should (if they haven't already) approach what he posts with much caution and suspicion.
    We all have dished out manure at one time or another. Let’s not pretend any of the regulars are just here to discuss. We all like the drama on some level of have grown to at least know it can occur when we post what’s on our minds.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I like it and don't mind what comes with it.
    Awesome. That explains why you post here so often, and perhaps why you and dneal spin into so many dances of aspersions. As he stated, he likes "playing" and "fucking with" people here. Have at it all you want.

    Some of the rest of us have to moderate our involvement in various ways.
    I’ve been reading your posts for a long time. You are in no position to pretend you always take the high road.
    I don't "pretend" that I "always" do anything, Chuck.

    "Moderating one's involvement" does not mean anything about superiority. It simply means wanting to avoid a mud fight, or at least decreasing the odds. Sometimes it means not even wanting to see others engaging in it. It becomes tiresome for some participants and spectators even. Like you said, anyone unhappy about the dynamics can use the ignore function or just view the threads less often (or even not all all).

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Well, I am off to get my annual flu jab. It won't completely vaccinate me, but it will reduce my chances of getting infected, having a bad time if I do get infected, or becoming a carrier in my community. Just like the Covid vaccine really.

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    Lloyd (May 9th, 2022)

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    May seems early. In the US October is recommended.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    May seems early. In the US October is recommended.
    He's heading into winter flu season where he lives.

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    Lloyd (May 9th, 2022)

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Indeed. I've lived here for 19 years now and still get confused by having Christmas in the summer. Mind you I also still convert the currency to GBP in my head.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    The White House just said to expect a rough flu season this fall with COVID. The epidemiologists tend to understand the mathmatical dynamics of these phenomena. Get ready for another wave. I will get all the shots and boosters that I can.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Attaboy!

    (always wanted to say that, hard to believe this is the first opportunity to present itself)

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    Lloyd (May 9th, 2022)

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Attaboy!

    (always wanted to say that, hard to believe this is the first opportunity to present itself)
    You should get a dog.

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Me too. I have very few criticisms about how all of this has been handled in the US, given the circumstances.
    I think Trump handled it poorly and the anti-vax loons and conspiracy mongers made things worse.

    Here, for comparison:

    How Australia Saved Thousands of Lives While Covid Killed a Million Americans
    By Damien Cave

    May 15, 2022

    MELBOURNE, Australia — If the United States had the same Covid death rate as Australia, about 900,000 lives would have been saved. The Texas grandmother who made the perfect pumpkin pie might still be baking. The Red Sox-loving husband who ran marathons before Covid might still be cheering at Fenway Park.

    For many Americans, imagining what might have been will be painful. But especially now, at the milestone of one million deaths in the United States, the nations that did a better job of keeping people alive show what Americans could have done differently and what might still need to change.

    Many places provide insight. Japan. Kenya. Norway. But Australia offers perhaps the sharpest comparisons with the American experience. Both countries are English-speaking democracies with similar demographic profiles. In Australia and in the United States, the median age is 38. Roughly 86 percent of Australians live in urban areas, compared with 83 percent of Americans.

    Yet Australia’s Covid death rate sits at one-tenth of America’s, putting the nation of 25 million people (with around 7,500 deaths) near the top of global rankings in the protection of life.

    Australia’s location in the distant Pacific is often cited as the cause for its relative Covid success. That, however, does not fully explain the difference in outcomes between the two countries, since Australia has long been, like the United States, highly connected to the world through trade, tourism and immigration. In 2019, 9.5 million international tourists came to Australia. Sydney and Melbourne could just as easily have become as overrun with Covid as New York or any other American city.

    So what went right in Australia and wrong in the United States?

    For the standard slide-show presentation, it looks obvious: Australia restricted travel and personal interaction until vaccinations were widely available, then maximized vaccine uptake, prioritizing people who were most vulnerable before gradually opening up the country again.

    From one outbreak to another, there were also some mistakes: breakdowns of protocol in nursing homes that led to clusters of deaths; a vaccine rollout hampered by slow purchasing. And with Omicron and eased restrictions, deaths have increased.

    But Australia’s Covid playbook produced results because of something more easily felt than analyzed at a news conference. Dozens of interviews, along with survey data and scientific studies from around the world, point to a lifesaving trait that Australians displayed from the top of government to the hospital floor, and that Americans have shown they lack: trust, in science and institutions, but especially in one another.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/15/w...e=articleShare

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    I wonder if size of population (scale of problem) was part of the challenge.

    But, I don't disagree with the assessment around trut in science and institutions. This has much eroded in this country (USA).

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    I do think we lost the battle because we trusted the wrong folks.

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    On other forums men say they have long Covid or just are inflected. They never admit to being vaccinated.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I do think we lost the battle because we trusted the wrong folks.
    I'm not part of "we".

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: Vaccine thread - part 2

    Maybe “we” overestimated their ability to combat it.

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