Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 181

Thread: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

  1. #1
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks
    2,402
    Thanked 2,281 Times in 1,306 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    I saw screenshots of Maryland Public School's Comprehensive Health Education Framework, and some of the things seemed a little odd. This is what we're teaching in schools?

    I'm not a prude, and don't see anything wrong with "sex ed" (contraception, STI's, etc...) and reproductive biology in Jr. High and High School; but some of this seems a bit much for public schools to be taking on. Some of it seems like indoctrination, and now I understand why so many children are having questions about their own gender.

    Are these topics appropriate for elementary students (Pre-K onward)?

    Pre-K "Gender identity and expression
    K - Medicine Use
    2 - Alcohol, nicotine, vaping
    3 - How to use medicines correctly
    3 - Harmful effects of alcohol
    4 - Sexual orientation and/or romantic involvement
    5 - Suicide prevention
    6 - Depression
    6 - Addiction
    6 - Sex assigned at birth
    7 - (Middle school or Jr. High depending on the district, but seriously?) Identify solo, vaginal, anal and oral sex

    The link is HERE, and I'll post some screenshots of pages. The "Family Life and Human Sexuality" section begins on pg 21.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  2. #2
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks
    2,402
    Thanked 2,281 Times in 1,306 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,118
    Thanks
    874
    Thanked 2,528 Times in 1,299 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    I suspect that there is a strong correlation between this and the fact that your country is now mostly known for being litigious.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Empty_of_Clouds For This Useful Post:

    Lloyd (May 8th, 2022)

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Not all people are straight
    Male
    White
    Cis-Gendered

    Not all families are white, or hetero, or have two parents.

    So if you're 5 and all the books you see at school, all the pictures in books, show white families with a male and a female, but you're mom is a single parent
    or your dad is a single parent
    Or you have two dads and no mom
    or you're Asian, or a PoC or Native American — you're going to feel like Your Family Is Wrong, or Not a real family

    Or

    If you feel like you're in the wrong body or that because you have a "male" body but you like "female" activities — or you feel like really, you're a boy but in a girl's body — if you feel like you're broken —

    What about those kids? Don't they deserve to know that they can make choices about how to be?

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Medievalist For This Useful Post:

    AzJon (May 25th, 2022)

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,788
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 897 Times in 689 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    I never had anyone tell me to like girls. I suspect that others are the same

  8. #6
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Thanks
    3,597
    Thanked 1,043 Times in 637 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    Not all people are straight
    Male
    White
    Cis-Gendered

    Not all families are white, or hetero, or have two parents.

    So if you're 5 and all the books you see at school, all the pictures in books, show white families with a male and a female, but you're mom is a single parent
    or your dad is a single parent
    Or you have two dads and no mom
    or you're Asian, or a PoC or Native American — you're going to feel like Your Family Is Wrong, or Not a real family

    Or

    If you feel like you're in the wrong body or that because you have a "male" body but you like "female" activities — or you feel like really, you're a boy but in a girl's body — if you feel like you're broken —

    What about those kids? Don't they deserve to know that they can make choices about how to be?
    Equally bad is when only a few fall into the "do not discuss" group, and the rest of the class ostracizes them. That can lead to wounds that never heal.

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Lloyd For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (May 9th, 2022)

  10. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,118
    Thanks
    874
    Thanked 2,528 Times in 1,299 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Social construction and the hidden curriculum. Hopefully addressing the first will impact the second.

  11. #8
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks
    2,402
    Thanked 2,281 Times in 1,306 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    I don't have a problem with the issues themselves. One can be or do whatever they want (after the age of consent and/or majority).

    My biggest issue is that there aren't additional hours in the day, however, so something within the traditional education scheme would be getting shorted. Might explain why I discovered my son never learned the days of the months, for example.

    Some of the topics just seem weird. Teaching 3rd graders how to use medicines correctly? Seems a little early, and not necessarily the responsibility of the school system.

    Lastly are the controversial topics, where opinions can vary across a spectrum. I don't think it's the school's responsibility to address many of them, particularly at the ages they are introduced. A less controversial issue for an example would be a 1st grade class on "Santa doesn't exist". Some people may not practice that tradition, some may want their children to know it's a myth, and some may want to keep it for nostalgia or whatever reason. Those are parental decisions, in my mind. Yeah, it's not a perfect analogy and kids usually find out from their peers anyway; but let's not disregard the principle to pick at the example. Offer a better one if you prefer.

    Point being I can see enough parents pressuring their politicians to "ban" certain topics for certain ages; which is what my understanding of the Florida law is. "No introduction or discussion of these topics before age x...".
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  12. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I never had anyone tell me to like girls. I suspect that others are the same
    I never did either but even now, as an out Lesbian in a stable relationship, I still get people trying to convince me that I'm "wasting" my life, or asking me why I don't "try" a guy, or trying to fix me up with a guy even though they know I'm in a monogamous Lesbian relationship.

    Here's something to think about, if you're straight.

    The Heterosexual Questionnaire.

    It was devised as a teaching exercise for College students.

  13. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Medievalist For This Useful Post:

    fountainpenkid (May 15th, 2022), Lloyd (May 9th, 2022), Prettypenguin (May 10th, 2022), TSherbs (May 9th, 2022)

  14. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I don't have a problem with the issues themselves. One can be or do whatever they want (after the age of consent and/or majority).

    My biggest issue is that there aren't additional hours in the day, however, so something within the traditional education scheme would be getting shorted. Might explain why I discovered my son never learned the days of the months, for example.

    Some of the topics just seem weird. Teaching 3rd graders how to use medicines correctly? Seems a little early, and not necessarily the responsibility of the school system..
    It's basically the same thing you probably got: Don't take candy from strangers. Don't take someone else's medication. The document is written for and from the persepctive of educators, not parents.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Medievalist For This Useful Post:

    Lloyd (May 9th, 2022)

  16. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I never had anyone tell me to like girls....
    Yes you did.

    In our culture we are awash in the tyranny of a binary, heterosexual paradigm. We are so saturated with it that we often say, "No one tells me to be straight" when actually that is the farthest thing from the truth. We are told this in our families, in our churches, synogogues, and mosques, in our schools, in our books, in our peer conversations, in our music, in our relative networks, in our books, plays, theater and advertizing through all of media. We are told this with our toys and games. We are inundated with the message that heterosexuality is the preferred paradigm. I am in my sixties, and through my first twenty years I was told that this was in fact the only paradigm: that anything else was deviancy and sin, both to be wary of and ashamed of. And I grew up in a fairly liberal household of the times.

    But yes, most of us actually have a sexual orientation regardless of all this messaging, which I think was your point. My point is that heterosexuality has its axis reinforced in nearly every way. All the other identities and practices, many equally rooted in childhood and not caused by messaging, have to exist in opposition to this tyranny of the hetero paradigm. There are no identities, no behaviors, no inclinations, no confusions, no explorations that are new today to the human species that did not exist in the history of human societies and culture. Gender identity and sexual practices have ranged all over the place and have been fluid and difficult to package and label and contain, especially for those who react to difference with fear.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    Prettypenguin (May 10th, 2022)

  18. #12
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Thanks
    3,597
    Thanked 1,043 Times in 637 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Regarding the discussions of "promiscuous" behaviors, many parents view the world, or wish the world still was, the same as in their youth. However, the internet has changed all that. Kids can, and will, see intense things that can have a profound and lasting negative impact on them if they're not prepared. Unfortunately, parents and lawmakers don't always view the world of kids from its current and near future state.

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  19. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Regarding the discussions of "promiscuous" behaviors, ...
    I'm curious, what are you quoting here?

  20. #14
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Thanks
    3,597
    Thanked 1,043 Times in 637 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Look at grades 7-8 in the last table

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  21. #15
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Thanks
    3,597
    Thanked 1,043 Times in 637 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I never had anyone tell me to like girls. I suspect that others are the same
    I never did either but even now, as an out Lesbian in a stable relationship, I still get people trying to convince me that I'm "wasting" my life, or asking me why I don't "try" a guy, or trying to fix me up with a guy even though they know I'm in a monogamous Lesbian relationship.

    Here's something to think about, if you're straight.

    The Heterosexual Questionnaire.

    It was devised as a teaching exercise for College students.
    OMG! The Heterosexual Questionnaire is phenomenal!

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Lloyd For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (May 9th, 2022)

  23. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Look at grades 7-8 in the last table

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    I did. I did not see the word "promiscuity" anywhere. But maybe I missed it. Did I? Or where you making a point about a term (and not quoting something)? I only ask because I am an educator and have to deal with these matters. The materials we use would never use that term for sexual activity.

  24. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    944
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 237 Times in 184 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    And this is why the American education system is the best in the world.

  25. #18
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Thanks
    3,597
    Thanked 1,043 Times in 637 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Look at grades 7-8 in the last table

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    I did. I did not see the word "promiscuity" anywhere. But maybe I missed it. Did I? Or where you making a point about a term (and not quoting something)? I only ask because I am an educator and have to deal with these matters. The materials we use would never use that term for sexual activity.
    I just didn't quote the document as it's over several regions. I was talking about the sexual activity discussions. They are more diverse than what I was taught as well as sounding more explicit. Given that I was raised in the suburbs and that I'm 58 now, I think it's justified that they learn this despite my not learning it.

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Lloyd For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (May 9th, 2022)

  27. #19
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Thanks
    3,597
    Thanked 1,043 Times in 637 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    And this is why the American education system is the best in the world.
    We attained or low ranking before all of this was added. America lack appreciation of teachers. It lacks adequate support for the sciences, mathematics. Look at the salaries of most middle and high school teachers. Any good mathematician is going to go into industry over teaching just to make more money.

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Lloyd For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (May 9th, 2022)

  29. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: I understand the Florida "don't say gay" law now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    Not all people are straight
    Male
    White
    Cis-Gendered

    Not all families are white, or hetero, or have two parents.

    So if you're 5 and all the books you see at school, all the pictures in books, show white families with a male and a female, but you're mom is a single parent
    or your dad is a single parent
    Or you have two dads and no mom
    or you're Asian, or a PoC or Native American — you're going to feel like Your Family Is Wrong, or Not a real family

    Or

    If you feel like you're in the wrong body or that because you have a "male" body but you like "female" activities — or you feel like really, you're a boy but in a girl's body — if you feel like you're broken —

    What about those kids? Don't they deserve to know that they can make choices about how to be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Look at grades 7-8 in the last table

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    I did. I did not see the word "promiscuity" anywhere. But maybe I missed it. Did I? Or where you making a point about a term (and not quoting something)? I only ask because I am an educator and have to deal with these matters. The materials we use would never use that term for sexual activity.
    I just didn't quote the document as it's over several regions. I was talking about the sexual activity discussions. They are more diverse than what I was taught as well as sounding more explicit. Given that I was raised in the suburbs and that I'm 58 now, I think it's justified that they learn this despite my not learning it.

    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    I see now. And I agree.

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    Lloyd (May 9th, 2022)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •