Is FPGeeks still a pleasant place to stay?

[Chrissy]

I'm not proud of how that turned out…

...so don't beat yourself up over it...

Why should I beat up myself? When I say that I am not proud of how that turned out, I mean that I am not proud of how the froum handled this. And I am part of the forum.

Apologies, then I misunderstood your comment. I thought you might be either blaming the posting of this thread or the communication you had between yourself and the member in question.

[Chrissy]

Call me gullible but I hope EoC reconsiders. I think at times he contributed amply and I think he needs a supportive community, something this forum has the potential to achieve.

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Yes, maybe he did contribute amply at times but there were others when he degenerated into being an aggressive name caller and picked on everyone who made any comment that he didn't like. That's exactly how it has all happened before too. Many of us have seen it all play out in a smilier way too many times in the past.

[An old bloke]

I'm not proud of how that turned out…

I have to ask; why?

In the end, the responsibility for how this interpersonal event turned out is not yours. Instead, it lies in the hands of an individual who in my opinion has acted immaturely and aggressively causing some very negative feelings amongst the majority here.

[christof]

I'm not proud of how that turned out…

I have to ask; why?

In the end, the responsibility for how this interpersonal event turned out is not yours. Instead, it lies in the hands of an individual who in my opinion has acted immaturely and aggressively causing some very negative feelings amongst the majority here.

Maybe I imagined that my post would make people think, and that behavior and word choice might change.

Maybe I was just hoping that we could all be together without arguing.

This thread proves the opposite of both. no reason to be proud. at least not for me. but that's the way it is. it‘s okay. the matter is settled for me. let's move on to fountain pens again!

[An old bloke]

let's move on to fountain pens again!

Hear, hear.

[Lloyd]

chistof- I feel, and I know a few others also, saddened by EoC, or for that matter, any member leaving our forum. I think we should be a more caring community. There's too much "subgrouping" in society, us versus them. A small community like one based on fountain pens is weakened by being split among so many disconnected different clusters (FPN, FPG, REDDIT, FB). I think a greater effort by all to try to avoid misinterpreting others and avoid others misinterpreting us is needed. We're all here spending our precious time on the same shared interest. Why be so callous as to say "good riddance" when one strays with feelings of lack of support?

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[TSherbs]

Here's another angle on this that recent came into greater clarity for me, and manoeuver's comment about defending friends reinforced the idea for me: I am the same way. I am fiercely loyal to friends. I don't mean that I never hurt their feelings; I mean that if I sense that they are being attacked, I will come to their defense. The way this has played itself out on these threads is that I have been triggered to hop into discussions that did not previously involve me, and my motivation has mostly been to assist someone that I know through back channels and have respect for. I am this way about my family (the family of my own childhood, I mean). I could not live with any of my four brothers, but you say one fucking unkind thing about them and you have a fight on your hands. Here, what this also has meant is that I have "forgiven" (looked the other way, been silent about, etc) my closer aquaintances for their pecadillos as I am sure that they have done for me. It seems human nature. I have seen others here do the same. I don't know if this helps the dynamics on threads or not, but when I see an aquaintance having trouble with conflict on a thread, I often write that person back channel and check in with how they are doing. Sometimes that "helps," sometimes it doesn't. It's just my nature: this is what I do at my workplace, and what, occasionally others do for me.

But then there are other times when I cannot do any forgiving, and I have recently seen many other cases recently where others were also locked in that same loop of resentment, effrontery, and riposte: the inability to just let something go that you perceive as outrageous, wrong, hypocritical, whatever. Even an opinion on a pen! For my "friends," I let nearly all of this go. For my rhetorical adversaries, this has been much harder for me. This is my problem, and I need to work on it. I am a veteran of AA, and right now, I just can't exchange with some people because it has become like a trecherous elixir to me. So I am going cold turkey.

I also have a few friends here, one in particular, who for months at a time (some years ago) I had locked on ignore because we were so caustic toward each other. But we had a breakthrough, entirely because the other person made the bigger move and reached out to me in contrition and respect. I was stunned, honestly. This had never happened to me before, nor have I ever done the same. I still owe that act as a PIF, friend! When I am big enough, I will do the same. I am working on it.

In real life a few years ago I made a pledge that I was going to spend an entire year making the effort to get closer to and to understand a very conservative colleague with whom I had frequently publicly disagreed on policy, occasionally with acrimony. I made the pledge to myself and I kept it. It was hard, we had rough patches, we argued a couple more times, but only in private now. And then we came to understand how much and in what similar ways we cared about the same things and had virtually the same values. We just had to break free of the sense of "camps" that we were in. Now that I am retiring, we have cried with each other over how we will miss working with each other (33 years of working with each other). These things can improve! If I can do this, if my colleague X can do this, if some of us antagonist members here can do this, then, like Lloyd, I believe that this *can* (not necessarily *will*) happen with ANYONE.

It just takes some humility, patience, forbearance, and initiative.

[Lloyd]

Thanks for sharing that, TSherbs. It's too easy in online forums to forget that each post is coming from someone that's not too different from ourselves with similar, but not identical, values, sensitivities, dreams, and beliefs. It's not easy for it to truly be a "social network" versus an "anti-social network". Perhaps if you imagined that the recipient was a loved one, we would try to avoid acting so combative and impulse-driven. When a member appears insulted, don't blame them, blame your post being misinterpreted due to how you wrote it and reach out to fix the situation. They're are a few trying to prove something to themselves, but most are trying to be members of a pen- loving community.

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[An old bloke]

Lloyd said, 'It's not easy for it to truly be a "social network" versus an "anti-social network". Perhaps if you imagined that the recipient was a loved one, we would try to avoid acting so combative and impulse-driven.'

Recognising that each of us is unique, that each of us has had different life experiences, and that our differences require mutual respect and understanding is my constant endeavour.

[Lloyd]

Lloyd said, 'It's not easy for it to truly be a "social network" versus an "anti-social network". Perhaps if you imagined that the recipient was a loved one, we would try to avoid acting so combative and impulse-driven.'

Recognising that each of us is unique, that each of us has had different life experiences, and that our differences require mutual respect and understanding is my constant endeavour.

We don't all interpret the same typed messages as showing respect and understanding. If someone gets angry and has an outburst, first we should blame ourselves for being misinterpreted instead of mentally classifying them in simple terms as someone I prefer to not be here. We don't know their history, weaknesses, needs. I view it like teaching. If the student fails to grasp the subject, I don't first blame the student, I blame myself for how I've taught it and try an alternative approach.

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[eachan]

I'm pleased with how the forum handled this. There was a problem which was becoming ever more severe and the forum discussed it reasonably and calmly. A resolution appears to have been reached. Well done!

[Lloyd]

I'm pleased with how the forum handled this. There was a problem which was becoming ever more severe and the forum discussed it reasonably and calmly. A resolution appears to have been reached. Well done!

I don't agree. A member left in a disillusioned (possibly depressed) state who, I think, could use some support. It might not be a requirement in a forum, but it is in a community.

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[An old bloke]

I'm pleased with how the forum handled this. There was a problem which was becoming ever more severe and the forum discussed it reasonably and calmly. A resolution appears to have been reached. Well done!

I don't agree. A member left in a disillusioned (possibly depressed) state who, I think, could use some support. It might not be a requirement in a forum, but it is in a community.

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No, a member whose caustic and in my opinion, immature, behaviour left willingly when others objected to that behaviour. It was effectively the same action as a child taking his or her ball and going home because his or her playmates refuse to accept his or her bullish behaviour.

[Chrissy]

I'm pleased with how the forum handled this. There was a problem which was becoming ever more severe and the forum discussed it reasonably and calmly. A resolution appears to have been reached. Well done!

I don't agree. A member left in a disillusioned (possibly depressed) state who, I think, could use some support. It might not be a requirement in a forum, but it is in a community.

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No, a member whose caustic and in my opinion, immature, behaviour left willingly when others objected to that behaviour. It was effectively the same action as a child taking his or her ball and going home because his or her playmates refuse to accept his or her bullish behaviour.

This by "An old bloke". Just to show an example of immature behaviour: Here is a post (#7) that had absolutely nothing to do with fountain pens at all but was merely an example of the action of a child taking his ball and going home because someone else actually got there before him and bought an item that was for sale to everyone on the forum as a Classified ad. A valued member of the forum was disparagingly called a "Boomer" merely for buying an item that was for sale. Is it a requirement of the forum or this community that he should have been supported if he had left because of this? Should the person exhibiting all of the bad behaviour be supported rather than those he has behaved badly towards? If he is in a depressed state then should he be here inflicting his modified behaviour on everyone else if this is the way it manifests itself? Or should he be seeking professional help instead?

I'm not revisiting this thread again. In fact I currently have much better things to do than come here to talk about this, so I'll take my time and do those other things instead.

[RobJohnson]

Wouldn't the use of the Ignore Button have protected you from any bad behaviour and therefore permitted some peaceful coexistence?

[Linger]

The ignore button is one solution. Another solution is, when you are confronted with a post that makes your blood boil, to try to see it as practicing your frustration tolerance. Practice makes perfect…

[Lloyd]

Chrissy - It isn't a requirement of the forum, but it is what would occur in a health community. It wouldn't be a matter of supporting one member and not the other. Both parties should receive support. If I had two kids and they fought due to the younger one feeling belittled, I wouldn't put one up for adoption.

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[Pterodactylus]

Overall again a thread which leads to nowhere…..

All people which complain about too less interesting content should first ask themselves: “How can I improve the situation by generating interesting stuff myself”.
Sometimes I have the feeling the attitude of many is: “I want to get entertained, but I don’t want to participate myself as content provider”.

As for the question of moderation, yes a good moderator is a good thing, but unfortunately good moderators are a very rare good.
Some people here would be really keen to get a Mod, but imho mostly the wrong ones.
E.g. Chrissy seems always want to become one, but to be honest if she would become a mod this would be a reason to consider to stop my contribution here.
I do not like her post #54, she plays often the moralizer but attacks also on a low level.
When she get pushbacks she often plays the prima donna.
For me she lost her reputation quite a while ago.

So no moderator is imho better than a bad one.


Ad “ignore”, yes an option.
Yes sometimes it is difficult to follow with people on the ignore list.
E.g. TSHerbs is on my personal ignore list a long time, this guy completely disqualified himself for me a long time ago, I have no intention to read something he writes here, even it make it difficult to follow a thread.

Interesting that EoC got again in focus in such a thread, but this does not surprise me.
Ad EoC, I like him, he is not an easy guy, and on quite some occasions I do not understand his motivation and I definitely do not agree with all he posts.
But he is a content provider, he raised a lot of interesting threads, has a different viewpoint, he enriches the forum.
Imho we need such crazy guys, a valuable member, definitely makes the forum brighter.
And his handwriting is awesome 🫠

[An old bloke]

Chrissy - It isn't a requirement of the forum, but it is what would occur in a health community. It wouldn't be a matter of supporting one member and not the other. Both parties should receive support. If I had two kids and they fought due to the younger one feeling belittled, I wouldn't put one up for adoption.

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Lloyd, I respect you and your input, and I have to ask is what I 'hear' you saying is that bad behaviour should be tolerated in a sense of 'fairness'? If so, I respect and commend you for your spirit of fairness and empathy, and I believe it is mis-guided in this instance.

As for your parental example, I have to ask you if one of your children was picking on a sibling or being a bully would you scold and/or punish the child?

Putting a child up for adoption because of a misdeed is not the same as what happened here. What happened here was someone who seemingly was bullying other members of this forum was confronted because of his/her behaviour and left as a result. No one was cast out.

[Lloyd]

EiC felt bullied. I'm not saying he was or wasn't. I'm not suggesting ignoring his outbursts. I'm suggesting calmly discussing them, either through PM or openly, to get to the heart of what the issue is. I did it and it resulted in a good relationship. You even saw a public post where I told him I felt he was in the wrong and he didn't react negatively. He felt disrespected here. Once he knew how much respect I had for him and gave him a few reasons why, he trusted me. It didn't take much, but it did take me reaching out.

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