Is FPGeeks still a pleasant place to stay?

[christof]

Believe me, I thought for a very long time whether I should really write the following. Especially at a time when there is more arguing than interesting content being posted. The reason why I do it anyway? - I have come to appreciate this forum very much, and its members as well. It has become dear to me.

I really like the idea of an unmoderated forum. After all, we are all adult persons and for a long time this worked very well but for some time I have less and less desire to come here.

Please don't misunderstand me. I am not accusing anyone. But I wonder why there has been a spiteful tone here for some time. And I wonder why this forum is dominated by threads who hardly contribute any interesting content? And why are there hostile camps among the members instead of beeing just a community? What is the appeal of arguing on the internet and why don't we all try to make this forum a pleasant place to escape to for recreation from our daily lives?

I am not a judge and I will not take sides. But I ask you to think about, what kind of content you'd like to read. Shouldn't we all try to create more of interesting stuff and just ignore what we don't like? I am convinced that in this forum is enough space for everyone.

Christof

[eachan]

Thank you for raising the subject, Christof. It has always been a problem of the Internet that that spiteful and unpleasant people, safe in their anonymity and distance, take a cowardly pleasure in disruption and insult. As this is an unmoderated board, as you say, it is perhaps surprising that there has been so little unpleasantness over the years, perhaps principally because most of those taking part have a genuine love of, and interest in, the subjects to be discussed here.

There are those among us who would be happy to see moderation here and the difficulties the board is experiencing at present go a long way to make their case. All I can say against that is how well this board runs for months at a time between the periods of acrimony and attack. I have experience of over-policed online environments and those are at least equally uncomfortable in the other direction.

There is the "ignore" function which can work in some circumstances but when a malicious poster is prolific, the conversation becomes broken up and hard to follow. For some already the option has been chosen to ignore the group entirely. We have lost discussion to other areas such as Facebook and that migration is hastened by unnecessary malice. I've seen other board go down because of one person's behaviour. Who is to say that the owner of this forum will practice forbearance forever?

[An old bloke]

Thank you for raising the subject, Christof. It has always been a problem of the Internet that that spiteful and unpleasant people, safe in their anonymity and distance, take a cowardly pleasure in disruption and insult. As this is an unmoderated board, as you say, it is perhaps surprising that there has been so little unpleasantness over the years, perhaps principally because most of those taking part have a genuine love of, and interest in, the subjects to be discussed here.

There are those among us who would be happy to see moderation here and the difficulties the board is experiencing at present go a long way to make their case. All I can say against that is how well this board runs for months at a time between the periods of acrimony and attack. I have experience of over-policed online environments and those are at least equally uncomfortable in the other direction.

There is the "ignore" function which can work in some circumstances but when a malicious poster is prolific, the conversation becomes broken up and hard to follow. For some already the option has been chosen to ignore the group entirely. We have lost discussion to other areas such as Facebook and that migration is hastened by unnecessary malice. I've seen other board go down because of one person's behaviour. Who is to say that the owner of this forum will practice forbearance forever?

Spot on.

There are 'ugly people' everywhere. The internet and any forum is no exception. That said, this forum is in my opinion a happy place. Yes, there is the occasional -- shall we say -- digresser, but they are rare. In the end, it is as mentioned above, possible to ignore the malicious or unpleasant participant just as it is to ignore the boring or rude individual we encounter elsewhere in our daily lives.

[Chrissy]

There are argumentative, spiteful and unpleasant people, who seem to enjoy nothing more than an argument, on every forum. They seem to take pleasure from starting and proliferating argumentative threads and posts because that is the basically the type of person they are or that they become when in the company of others on fora. As eachan says 'safe in their anonymity and distance'.

An unmoderated forum seems like a good idea until you get those people who actually prefer to post malicious posts rather than posting the type of content others like to read. Then you do need a moderator to step up and do something about it. Otherwise, once they are aware that their actions are totally immune from any sort of moderation the nuisance posters seem to be empowered to become worse and worse.

[eachan]

I agree with all your points, Chrissy. However I think Eric has made it abundantly clear that he has no wish to conduct active moderation and must be nudged to do anything at all. He's also unwilling to hand over moderation responsibility due to a previous occurrence. We have to solve our problems here without moderation or walk away. It's no good continuing to ask for what we won't get.

[manoeuver]

A lot of people are in a great deal of pain.

[TSherbs]

A lot of people are in a great deal of pain.

This is a good reminder, manoeuver

[scrivelry]

A lot of people are in a great deal of pain.

This, certainly.

When people are negative, there is generally a reason. For some, it is not meant to be negative, but maybe they have problems expressing themselves. For others, they are impatient with anyone who does not agree with them. Occasionally, people post things some take as negative because they really believe with all their hearts that they are correct, and are perhaps preventing damage. And some people are in pain or have some other problem they are dealing with.

That problem can be physical or mental pain. It can be mental illness of a mild or powerful degree. It may be financial, or social, or spiritual for those who define a portion of themselves that way. The past few years with the pandemic and all the fallout from that have clearly added to the burdens people are carrying - there is a lot of research going on about it, it is not just blaming whatever is out there. So more people are in varying sorts of pain than usual, whatever usual is.

Are some people nasty? Yes, anywhere. Do the reasons vary from just liking to be mean to all sorts of complex interactions? Yes. Personally, unless it is very clearly directed at me as a personal jab, I really try to ignore it.

Overall, I find the people of this board to be kind and truly generous. I have had a number of really kind overtures of various kinds from a wide group of members here over the years, including recently. So, for me, yes, it is a pleasant place to hang out.

[Lloyd]

Also, many members here came after being banned "elsewhere". Some deservedly.
I find that those discussing their pen usage (arts, quotes, etc.) Are very warm while several in the open debate subforum are not.

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[TSherbs]

I have correspondents whom I have been writing to for years whom I met here. I have "friends" whom I would like to have a beer with one day. I also have been so tired of the toxicity, some of which I responded to in kind, that I have left FPG for months at a time. I now use the ignore function liberally, and am much happier. There are many very kind and gracious people here.

[TSherbs]

I thought a little more about this question and thought that I would add this: most of the vitriol has its source in the "Politics, Religion, and Culture" section of this site, we are warned that the conversations can be free-wheeling and bruising and not suitable for the thin-skinned. There are many members who upon looking in those threads clearly then stay away from the mud-splatter that can result. Since Eric in his description (or whoever wrote the decription....Dan?) clearly labels what may happen there, one shouldn't have much surprise for what does transpire, especially since it is un-moderated. I am present there (although, as I say, I have been away for spells of several months, from time to time since 2013), and I have both thrown and been hit by mud. We each have our limits for what we consider fair conduct, even in those condiditons, and not all participants have the same kinds of standards (for example, I have a potty mouth in terms of swearing and see no disrespect in vulgar language. I love the Brits for this!). But that is me. Others don't feel that way, even in these back pages. The bigger problem, as I see it, is when these troubled relationships between members on these back pages spill out openly on other threads where members participate not expecting to have to read or dodge or witness that same kind of mud. This site has some *rooms* for fighting, but clearly other threads are meant to be free of it, even if the site lacks moderation. One reason that I use the ignore function is so I don't have to read some of the posts that I would find quasi-irritating by members whom I may feel animus toward for reasons outside the thread in question. And if I am less irritated, then I am less likely to yield to the impulse to post a similarly-irritating reply (and then we are off to the races). I am not perfect about this, but this thread is a reminder that I can be better.

So maybe a way of looking at this is to say, don't be surprised to see mud on the walls of the mudrooms, but maybe we should try to do better to keep the mud out of the other rooms of this local mansion. As I wrote and very strongly believe, there are many good and gracious people here.

[An old bloke]

I thought a little more about this question and thought that I would add this: most of the vitriol has its source in the "Politics, Religion, and Culture" section of this site, we are warned that the conversations can be free-wheeling and bruising and not suitable for the thin-skinned. There are many members who upon looking in those threads clearly then stay away from the mud-splatter that can result. Since Eric in his description (or whoever wrote the decription....Dan?) clearly labels what may happen there, one shouldn't have much surprise for what does transpire, especially since it is un-moderated. I am present there (although, as I say, I have been away for spells of several months, from time to time since 2013), and I have both thrown and been hit by mud. We each have our limits for what we consider fair conduct, even in those condiditons, and not all participants have the same kinds of standards (for example, I have a potty mouth in terms of swearing and see no disrespect in vulgar language. I love the Brits for this!). But that is me. Others don't feel that way, even in these back pages. The bigger problem, as I see it, is when these troubled relationships between members on these back pages spill out openly on other threads where members participate not expecting to have to read or dodge or witness that same kind of mud. This site has some *rooms* for fighting, but clearly other threads are meant to be free of it, even if the site lacks moderation. One reason that I use the ignore function is so I don't have to read some of the posts that I would find quasi-irritating by members whom I may feel animus toward for reasons outside the thread in question. And if I am less irritated, then I am less likely to yield to the impulse to post a similarly-irritating reply (and then we are off to the races). I am not perfect about this, but this thread is a reminder that I can be better.

So maybe a way of looking at this is to say, don't be surprised to see mud on the walls of the mudrooms, but maybe we should try to do better to keep the mud out of the other rooms of this local mansion. As I wrote and very strongly believe, there are many good and gracious people here.

Having never visited the 'Poiitics, Religion, and Culture' sub-forum, being previously unaware of its existence, I wouldn't know what goes on there. My opinion that FPG is a 'happy place' is based solely upon what has happened in the rest of the forum.

[Lloyd]

The "Politics, Religion, and Culture" sub-forum has turned into the "Lord of the Flies". Unfortunate, there's now a bridge from that subforum to the rest of this forum.

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[TSherbs]

The "Politics, Religion, and Culture" sub-forum has turned into the "Lord of the Flies". Unfortunate, there's now a bridge from that subforum to the rest of this forum.

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Ha! I teach that book to 9th graders (finished it about a month ago).

[Niner]

The "Politics, Religion, and Culture" sub-forum has turned into the "Lord of the Flies". Unfortunate, there's now a bridge from that subforum to the rest of this forum.

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Ha! I teach that book to 9th graders (finished it about a month ago).

(Thread hijack?) I have something to say about that book to anyone who is interested.

[Lloyd]

The "Politics, Religion, and Culture" sub-forum has turned into the "Lord of the Flies". Unfortunate, there's now a bridge from that subforum to the rest of this forum.


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Ha! I teach that book to 9th graders (finished it about a month ago).

(Thread hijack?) I have something to say about that book to anyone who is interested.

Was it based on one of your boy scout adventures that went awry? 😄
(I thought I'd add a bit of levity to this serious thread. It's the way my brain works.)

Why not start a new thread here, Niner?
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[Niner]

(Thread hijack?) I have something to say about that book to anyone who is interested.

Was it based on one of your boy scout adventures that went awry? 😄
.
.
.
Why not start a new thread here, Niner?

Oh, no! I wasn't prepared for that.

[Linger]

The "Politics, Religion, and Culture" sub-forum has turned into the "Lord of the Flies". Unfortunate, there's now a bridge from that subforum to the rest of this forum.

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My father taught me to avoid certain topics on most parties: money, religion, and politics.

[Lloyd]

The "Politics, Religion, and Culture" sub-forum has turned into the "Lord of the Flies". Unfortunate, there's now a bridge from that subforum to the rest of this forum.

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My father taught me to avoid certain topics on most parties: money, religion, and politics.

Good advice. If you stay in contact with something for long enough, you become part of it.

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[Lloyd]

EoC- I hate to write this, and I apologize if you feel it should be in a PM To you. I find you to be avoiding viewing your own posts objectively. You classify a subset as "blowhards" despite supporting not classifying the members but their postings. You ask for advise from those with a lot of experience, possibly gained through the repair profession. However, if it's at odds with what you decide to do, and if you have success, you castigate them. If I advise someone who's poor not to buy lottery tickets and they avoid my advise and win a million dollars, should they insult me as acting like a know it all? Many, obviously not all, in the thread you shared with me were trying their best to sincerely assist you. Instead of thanking them but opting to follow your own methods, you insulted them. This isn't the only time you've exhibited the "me versus the old guard" attitude. There are certainly many who act hypocritically here, but we're all opting to expend the one thing that's most valuable in this world, our time, to share ourselves with other FP lovers. Unfortunately, the immediacy of the internet, versus letter writing, and the anonymity of it, versus face to face, leads to members posting knee jerk reactions to misinterpretations of others postings. We could all benefit from waiting to submit our posts, reading them through a loved one's eyes, before clicking.

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