Massacre

[Chuck Naill]

My intent on the other hand is not to troll or mislead in my posts. The Second Amendment says what it says. It is about national security. If you happen to use a gun as a hobby or sport, no harm as long as you observe common sense safety. No 18 year old should be able to amass an arsenal and no police force should be less equipped than a crazed person. If the NRA insists in forcing Americans to allow assault rifles, then they should make sure all school resource officers are equipped for whatever they might face. I don't know how you stay outside a classroom of 10 year old's. I'd gotten shot, but Lord God I would have had to do something. "When good men do nothing" comes to mind. I don't know how I could live with myself otherwise.

I heard Trump speak on the shooting and he is as foolish as ever. He is on record for not sending money to Ukraine. Look for him to side with his bud Putin if re-elected. Please don't cite Goodwins Law again. These are more serious times.

On the other hand, there are people willing to tell the truth. This is from San Franciso Giants Manager, Gabe Kapler.
"“When I was the same age as the children in Uvalde, my father taught me to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance when I believed my country was representing its people well or to protest and stay seated when it wasn’t. I don’t believe it is representing us well,” Kapler wrote, adding: “Every time I place my hand over my heart and remove my hat, I’m participating in a self-congratulatory glorification of the ONLY country where these mass shootings take place.”

"“We elect our politicians to represent our interests,” Kapler wrote. “Immediately following this shooting, we were told we needed locked doors and armed teachers. We were given thoughts and prayers. We were told it could have been worse, and we just need love.

“But we weren’t given bravery, and we aren’t free,” he wrote. “The police on the scene put a mother in handcuffs as she begged them to go in and save her children. They blocked parents trying to organize to charge in to stop the shooter, including a father who learned his daughter was murdered while he argued with the cops. We aren’t free when politicians decide that the lobbyist and gun industries are more important than our children’s freedom to go to school without needing bulletproof backpacks and active shooter drills.”

Again, we are being ruled by the minority. Perhaps some will understand.

[Chuck Naill]

From Maurine Dowd

"The shooter in Uvalde slipped into a fourth-grade classroom at Robb Elementary School, ominously announced, “Look what we have here” and fired more than 100 rounds.

The local police did nothing to stop the human sacrifice. Nineteen officers loitered in the hall for as long as 78 minutes as children died. How can you justify keeping assault weapons on the open market when police officers don’t engage with them, even with kids’ lives on the line?

As the officers waited, not bothering to break down a barricaded door, the 19 lambs went to slaughter, trapped in a blood-soaked classroom with an 18-year-old madman. In a haunting tableau, one little girl smeared herself with her dead friend’s blood to appear dead. Meanwhile, desperate parents tried to climb over a chain-link fence to save their children. The police, doing nothing more useful, kept busy by handcuffing at least one parent trying to get into the school."

"Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas coldly said of the massacre, the sixth mass shooting in his seven years in office, “could have been worse.” Donald Trump, who once told me if he were elected president, he would get in his limo and drive down to the National Rifle Association and bargain with it until he could get agreement to some common-sense solutions, spoke to the N.R.A. convention in Houston Friday evening and spouted gun lobby talking points — small price for the tens of millions it spent to get him elected. What a sociopathic jellyfish. It was sacrilege for him to make it seem as though the N.R.A. cared by reading the names of the dead children and teachers, with a bell gonging after each name." SHE SOUNDS PISSED!!

[TSherbs]

Sociopathic jellyfish is right!

Our gun lobby in America is one of our most morally craven institutions. It perpetuates and manipulates for its own profit an outdated and twisted mythology around American masculinity and violence. It perpetuates the myth that whites are not safe from people of color, and that citizens are not safe from its government, and then markets and sells the tools of human destruction to its citizenry by the hundreds of millions, polluting society with lethal tools of false security.

And then we turn them on each other, which is exactly what every manufacturer knows has a certain probability to occur. It is what, in fact, they are designed to do: put holes in other human beings.

QED

Mission accomplished.

[dneal]

Chuck's intent is not to troll, but we have post #31. "Perhaps @dneal needs a dead Supreme Court judge to interpret what Trump actually said."

Chuck's intent is not to mislead, but he asserts his opinion on the meaning of the 2nd Amendment and that the Supreme Court "redefined" it - all while confessing his ignorance to what the Supreme Court actually decided, and why. When presented with the opportunity to educate himself and twice provided a link to the decision, he apparently refuses to read it - substituting banal rhetoric about "Trump!" and doubling down on his opinion of what the 2nd Amendment means.

Chuck then introduces some crazed tangent about Putin and Trump, demanding posters not point out that his pseudo argument has devolved to a form of Godwin's law - with an irrelevant invoking of Trump.

As another poster reminded us:

This is Chuck.
When the topic is too tough for him to understand Chuck goes inanely off-topic.
Chuck thinks his distraction prevents you from noticing his inability to engage in genuine discussion.
Don't be Chuck.

[Chuck Naill]

Greg Abbot is saying he was misled. Own your shit Greg.

[Chuck Naill]

Chuck's intent is not to troll, but we have post #31. "Perhaps @dneal needs a dead Supreme Court judge to interpret what Trump actually said."

Chuck's intent is not to mislead, but he asserts his opinion on the meaning of the 2nd Amendment and that the Supreme Court "redefined" it - all while confessing his ignorance to what the Supreme Court actually decided, and why. When presented with the opportunity to educate himself and twice provided a link to the decision, he apparently refuses to read it - substituting banal rhetoric about "Trump!" and doubling down on his opinion of what the 2nd Amendment means.

Chuck then introduces some crazed tangent about Putin and Trump, demanding posters not point out that his pseudo argument has devolved to a form of Godwin's law - with an irrelevant invoking of Trump.

As another poster reminded us:

This is Chuck.
When the topic is too tough for him to understand Chuck goes inanely off-topic.
Chuck thinks his distraction prevents you from noticing his inability to engage in genuine discussion.
Don't be Chuck.

You have your Ukraine thread to whine, vent, and do whatever, stop trolling here, @dneal.

[dneal]

Sorry Chuck. See post #31 to identify the troll. If you believe pointing out your duplicity and hypocrisy is trolling, an easy solution for you is to stop behaving in that manner. Similarly, if you do not want Godwin's law mentioned for invoking Trump, perhaps you should stop invoking Trump.

You say you like to read. You said "reading the document is important". Have you read this document?

[Lloyd]

To members on both sides - Why must you go after each other? Why not focus on such issues as (1) the incident (2) potential causes of this incident (3) what, if any, changes that need to occur (4) if the 2nd ammendment is being used or abused by the NRA (5) if the 2nd ammendment needs a rewrite or just better understanding ....

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[dneal]

Nah, you go first. Why do you have this weird penchant for assuming a role of hall monitor?

You're as complicit as anyone else, and certainly not a neutral arbiter of goings-on; so step down off of the soapbox.

[Chip]

Daniel Defense, the company that made and sold the murder weapon that killed 21 people in Texas, posted this on their Instagram page on 17 April.

[Lloyd]

Nah, you go first. Why do you have this weird penchant for assuming a role of hall monitor?

You're as complicit as anyone else, and certainly not a neutral arbiter of goings-on; so step down off of the soapbox.

Kids are massacred in Texas, I make a request to focus on this issue which I direct at everyone, and you'd rather tear into each other's foibles? How have I been complicit in this thread?

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[Chuck Naill]

@dneal go away. You made a request on your Ukrainian thread and I honored it. Show some respect yourself.

[dneal]

@dneal go away. You made a request on your Ukrainian thread and I honored it. Show some respect yourself.

No, you didn’t. See post 101 in that thread, for example. A week later in post 177 and 179? Back again, blatantly trolling.

In this thread, your 2nd amendment claim was silly enough and easily disprovable that I chose to point it out. You chose to escalate to insult and clear trolling in post 31. What was that you said about resorting to ad hominem when you lose the argument? We both know why you refused to read the decision, and why you posted #31. I still think you would find the decision interesting.

[dneal]

Nah, you go first. Why do you have this weird penchant for assuming a role of hall monitor?

You're as complicit as anyone else, and certainly not a neutral arbiter of goings-on; so step down off of the soapbox.

Kids are massacred in Texas, I make a request to focus on this issue which I direct at everyone, and you'd rather tear into each other's foibles? How have I been complicit in this thread?

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Bullshit. You could have simply said that instead of your semi-ambiguous "members of both sides choosing to go after each other" and "why not focus on such issues as..."

[Chuck Naill]

Please stop it, @dneal. Go away.

[dneal]

Please stop it, @dneal. Go away.

Sorry buddy, you made this bed. Now lie in it.

[Lloyd]

Why are there separate threads, each with its own unique title, in this subforum when they all descend into reiterated bickering and character attacks on one another?

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[dneal]

Why are there separate threads, each with its own unique title, in this subforum when they all descend into reiterated bickering and character attacks on one another?

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Good question.

A little research will reveal a strong correlation. Regular participants can probably even point out the specific thread where things changed.

[Lloyd]

Why are there separate threads, each with its own unique title, in this subforum when they all descend into reiterated bickering and character attacks on one another?

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Good question.

A little research will reveal a strong correlation. Regular participants can probably even point out the specific thread where things changed.

Do you see this as unfixable? Didn't the Ukraine thread show that some subjects deserve more respectful discussions? Wouldn't a massacre of our youth fall into that category of subjects?

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[TSherbs]

Daniel Defense, the company that made and sold the murder weapon that killed 21 people in Texas, posted this on their Instagram page on 17 April.

That's disgusting.