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Thread: Waterman No 5 celluloid pen Feed

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    Senior Member Cyril's Avatar
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    Unhappy Waterman No 5 celluloid pen Feed

    I have a question about Waterman No 5 celluloid pen Feed and the red nib.
    I recently got this pen. The seller says it was cleaned and fixed with a new sac. It seems to be a new sac but not with a decent clean of the section and feed/nib.
    So I tried to remove the feed but the nib came free and the feed is unremovable attached. There's a lot of caked old ink junk.
    I guess I have to use a tapping tool and to do that I have to cut the new sac. Then I tried to pull the feed with a help of a rubber grip.
    It did not work but strangely there's a small piece of black METAL BLADE ( used extra shape of the feed as to plug the section as friction tight ) came out. To my knowledge this seems to be a weird mechanism in a vintage pen and nib section??

    So my question is there any vintage waterman pens have a section to fit the " nib/feed " have any metal PLUG ? or is this specific to this Waterman No5 with Red nib.
    Other diagnosing is I find this nib is very wobbled even with this plug. You can easily pull out the nib alone free easily. Pen tends to blob easily if you shake.

    I'd love to see any opinions or answers from you the experts on this pen or the watermen community. thank you again in advance for your time.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waterman No 5 celluloid pen Feed

    Photos will be helpful.

    Is the section made of celluloid or hard rubber? Is the "metal blade" actually made of metal or might it be a piece of a thin hard rubber cylinder around the feed?

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    Senior Member Cyril's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waterman No 5 celluloid pen Feed

    IMG_0029.jpg

    @FredRydr

    Thank you Fred,

    I did this photo to post here. The section seems to be hard rubber as there's an older yellowish colouring to the section. The piece came out also looks like hard rubber not metal . I can't see a cylindic casing as the feed is unremovable and intact to the section. My writing shows the ink bloating marks when did writing the last lines. If this is the right feed for this pen I wonder??
    Thanks for your expertise points. Well I am a bit disappointed as this is going to be another adding pen to my " pen bin". !!!!
    Last edited by Cyril; June 9th, 2022 at 07:39 PM.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waterman No 5 celluloid pen Feed

    Your Waterman No. 5 Red in jet black is certainly usable and worth repairing!

    You must drive out the feed to resolve this, and I get the impression you lack the tools. Watch this video for a method to get that feed out of the section: https://youtu.be/68kbTPRkuVA

    • If there are no more curved pieces like the one you called a "blade," I expect a former owner fashioned a shim to hold the feed in place, but that could enable air to pass by and lead to blobbing. If it was my pen, I would heat the hard rubber section and feed separately to return them to their original shape, then reassemble the section, feed and nib for a tight fit, install a fresh sac and see if all is well. Observe the maximum heat limit for hard rubber, crucial to avoid destroying those parts.
    • If there are more pieces like the one you called a "blade" that fall out or stick inside the section and appear to be pieces of a cylinder, your pen has one of those odd hard rubber sleeves around the feed. If it was my pen, I would get either a replacement feed to fit that section without the sleeve, or a replacement section to fit that feed without the sleeve. It may be simpler to buy a matched pair. See: http://fivestarpens.com/waterman-pen-parts.html

    A knockout block and a couple of drive punches are needed for basic disassembly of your pen projects. You can buy purpose-made tools from the likes of Dale Beebe (https://pentooling.com) or make your own tools. See the advice of Ron Zorn in his sticky threads on FPN: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/f...-repair-qampa/ Then there's the need for a source of controlled dry heat. Fountain pen tools? Welcome to another rabbit hole.

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    Senior Member Ron Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waterman No 5 celluloid pen Feed

    Some of the Waterman feeds are two piece, with a bushing that goes around the feed with an attached "blade" that covers the ink channels, which is what you have. These are a pain in the tush, and pen mechanics often replace them with a regular Waterman feed because they just don't work well. With that cover broke off and loose, you need to replace the feed. Look for one that is the same as the outside diameter as the bushing, or one that is close to the ID of the section.

    BTW, it is not uncommon for Waterman nibs and feeds to be loose. One of the charming features of Waterman's design.

    You have by the way, encountered the vague area in descriptions of "repaired." They were quite honest - they said that they installed a new sac, and they did. Actually cleaning the pen so that it works, or taking care of a loose feed would be something else all together.
    Last edited by Ron Z; June 9th, 2022 at 11:00 AM.

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  9. #6
    Senior Member Cyril's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waterman No 5 celluloid pen Feed

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Your Waterman No. 5 Red in jet black is certainly usable and worth repairing!

    You must drive out the feed to resolve this, and I get the impression you lack the tools. Watch this video for a method to get that feed out of the section: https://youtu.be/68kbTPRkuVA

    • If there are no more curved pieces like the one you called a "blade," I expect a former owner fashioned a shim to hold the feed in place, but that could enable air to pass by and lead to blobbing. If it was my pen, I would heat the hard rubber section and feed separately to return them to their original shape, then reassemble the section, feed and nib for a tight fit, install a fresh sac and see if all is well. Observe the maximum heat limit for hard rubber, crucial to avoid destroying those parts.
    • If there are more pieces like the one you called a "blade" that fall out or stick inside the section and appear to be pieces of a cylinder, your pen has one of those odd hard rubber sleeves around the feed. If it was my pen, I would get either a replacement feed to fit that section without the sleeve, or a replacement section to fit that feed without the sleeve. It may be simpler to buy a matched pair. See: http://fivestarpens.com/waterman-pen-parts.html

    A knockout block and a couple of drive punches are needed for basic disassembly of your pen projects. You can buy purpose-made tools from the likes of Dale Beebe (https://pentooling.com) or make your own tools. See the advice of Ron Zorn in his sticky threads on FPN: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/f...-repair-qampa/ Then there's the need for a source of controlled dry heat. Fountain pen tools? Welcome to another rabbit hole.
    Thank you for the helpful answer,
    I am going to start it from Zero. I'll remove the feed completely and find a feed that fit the pen . Then replace with a new sac and for the time being this pen goes to the dead pen box waiting for another life.
    Thank you Fred


    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    Some of the Waterman feeds are two piece, with a bushing that goes around the feed with an attached "blade" that covers the ink channels, which is what you have. These are a pain in the tush, and pen mechanics often replace them with a regular Waterman feed because they just don't work well. With that cover broke off and loose, you need to replace the feed. Look for one that is the same as the outside diameter as the bushing, or one that is close to the ID of the section.

    BTW, it is not uncommon for Waterman nibs and feeds to be loose. One of the charming features of Waterman's design.

    You have by the way, encountered the vague area in descriptions of "repaired." They were quite honest - they said that they installed a new sac, and they did. Actually cleaning the pen so that it works, or taking care of a loose feed would be something else all together.
    Agree with you Ron. Repair is a label that has many if not multiple significant meanings. Thank you for your sincere explanation and One of these days, I need to get into this rabbit hole of pen healing with a bit of more positive mind set.

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