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Thread: Does this ring true?

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Does this ring true?

    It does for me. It's the part of Bernie's message that resonates (although the below isn't from Bernie), and appealed to a great deal of voters.

    -----------------------------------

    Every time there’s a financial collapse, it’s done by an organized, thought-through effort of the financial and corporate elites. When it collapsed, the Federal Reserve didn’t call all the financial institutions together and corporations and say: “Hey, boys, we’ve got a problem, right? This is a problem, and we need to pass the hat. You’ve got to cough up some cash.”

    That trillion dollars was from the taxpayer. They hit “print,” right? But the guy who’s going to pay for it is the little guy.

    We live in neofeudalism. This is not capitalism. This is where you have an underclass, right, a Lumpenproletariat almost that’s taken care of by the state; you have the very wealthy; and you have this kind of neofeudalist working class and middle class that pays for everything, and the guys at the top who have socialized the risk, that trillion dollars of infusion.

    When a guy like Bernanke walks in and says, “I need a trillion dollars,” you don’t have time to debate. History’s going to look at you. When he says, “The American financial system’s going to collapse in 72 hours and the world financial system two days after that, and you’re going to have global anarchy,”

    When they come in and ask for the first trillion in an emergency, I believe you have to say: “OK, we’ve got to do it.

    But remember, that’s the first trillion. We kept on for another $3.5 trillion. This is just bailing out the people that caused the problems. Goldman Sachs didn’t lose any equity. None of the partners really missed any bonus payments. GE’s still in business, AIG. It all still exists.

    The reverse side of this, remember, there is a corollary to this that’s quite powerful. And we know from the notes of the Federal Reserve, a guy named Richard Fisher, the governor—
    the president of the Federal Reserve of Dallas, argued this in the room constantly. He said by doing this quantitative easing, which you’re just flooding the zone with liquidity, we will save the institutions, and we will save anybody that’s a big real estate holder or hedge fund or bank.

    But he said, there’s a huge reverse here. Number one, savings accounts are going to go to zero-interest rates. Savings accounts are going to go to zero. So 5,000 years of the Western tradition, which is be a good householder, get a wife, get a mortgage, get some kids, and you save your money.

    Well, now, if you save money, you’re a sucker, because it’s broken the trust. That’s the trust that’s broken. If you save money, you’re a jerk because you’re not going to get any interest paid. In fact, the bank’s going to charge you. So you can’t put money away to save into the system.

    Number two, the pension funds. The pensions funds are going to be destroyed. Today we have a $9.5 trillion gap between the obligations of the pension funds and what we’ve earned off the pension funds. Why? Because it went to zero-interest rates, and the bonds they can buy have no juice in them. right? Even communities that are not leveraged can’t issue bonds because there’s no juice in the bonds, because of negative interest rates. We’ve essentially put the burden of the bailout on the working class and middle class.
    That’s why nobody owns anything. But the millennials today are nothing but 19th-century Russian serfs. They’re better fed; they’re better clothed; they’re in better shape; they have more information than anybody in the world at any point in time, but they don’t own anything.
    They’re not going to own anything, OK? And they’re 20%—if you mark in time against their parents, they’re 20% behind in their income, and there’s no pension plan in the future. They’re all gig economy.

    We’ve literally destroyed the middle class in this country. And both political parties, by the way, this is not about Republicans and Democrats. This is the way the system works, and this is the way the system comes together to protect itself and to move itself forward.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    One part of the writer's comments struck me as particularly prescient.

    That’s why nobody owns anything. But the millennials today are nothing but 19th-century Russian serfs. They’re better fed; they’re better clothed; they’re in better shape; they have more information than anybody in the world at any point in time, but they don’t own anything.
    They’re not going to own anything, OK? And they’re 20%—if you mark in time against their parents, they’re 20% behind in their income, and there’s no pension plan in the future. They’re all gig economy.
    This seems to be an alternate viewpoint of Klaus Schwab and his World Economic Forum's "Great Reset" prediction that "You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy".

    Is this the world you want for your children or grandchildren?

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    First thoughts are that African Americans have been serfs for a long time. They don’t own anything and haven’t before.

    Secondly, families pass down wealth, pay for education, and help sustain the next generation until they can make it on their own.

    Thirdly, educational debt is a surge on us all. It effects almost every market.

    Fourthly, I didn’t own anything when I was 20-30. I paid 12% mortgage interest on my first house circa 1979. At that time, savings accounts and savings and loans were paying double digit interest on a CD. I’ve never received an inheritance nor had a pension.

    Lastly, it is debt and the inability to get out of debt that destroys. Unregulated capitalism, that Reagan ushered in is partly to blame for out current conditions. Trumps tax reform didn’t help the middle class,’but the wealthy .

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    I'm not clear if you have answered the question though. Does the gist of the piece ring true with you? That the "elites" continue to broker the system to their advantage at the expense of the middle and lower classes? That future generations will not have the same economic opportunity as previous generations?

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    It does not ring true. There will always be an Ivanka or a Jered that benefit from family wealth, but opportunities continue to exist.

    Plus, I don't subscribe to using elites for a reason why the system is against our children and grandchildren. It can be a crutch. Persistence and determination often is the key to a great life. Certainly the 1970’s were a difficult time to be starting out. We survived and thrived by being willing to adapt and self reinventing ourselves .

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    So, to complete a nurse practitioner degree from one of the most affordable universities is $24k per semester. What could possibly justify?

    If we have a nursing shortage, but some are blocked because of tuition, is it the elites or the availability of debt?

    Change the system.

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    This isn't about African Americans, Ivanka, Reagan, or your personal history.

    The piece centers on crony capitalism, taxpayer bailouts, and printing of money being things that negatively affect the lower and middle classes. It points out that "elites" (investment bankers, etc...) are more inclined to engage in practices that lead to short-term gains with long-term risk, when they can persuade government (whose income comes from the taxpayer) to cover that risk.

    Is that something you disagree with - i.e. something that does not ring true?

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    You’re not looking for a discussion, but a confirmation of your bias. I’m done.

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    I’m merely asking you about the topic posted, instead of the separate issues you introduce. Many of them are worthy of their own threads.

    This topic is non partisan, and points out that both parties are complicit.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    Is this your definition of crony capitalism?
    “Crony capitalism, sometimes called Cronyism, is an economic system in which businesses thrive not as a result of free enterprise, but rather as a return on money amassed through collusion between a business class and the political class.”

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    Not my definition, but that suffices. The collusion of business and political classes is the key tenant.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    It’s nothing I notice that prevents success.

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Not my definition, but that suffices. The collusion of business and political classes is the key tenant.
    ten·et | ˈtenət |
    noun
    a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy: the tenets of a democratic society.

    That's your lesson for today.

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    *yawn*

    Take it up with Apple’s auto correct.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    You can switch that off. I've never used any autocorrect stuff. Distracting.

    Do you bother to read your things before you post them?
    Last edited by Chip; June 13th, 2022 at 11:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    Do you intend to address the topic?

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    This is the former Federal Reserve Chairman. I felt that a look back, when some of us were at the same stage as Millennials might ring true. In 1980 I had too much debt and interest rates were soaring.
    At the time I didn't see a way out, but I kept trying.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/o...smid=url-share

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Do you intend to address the topic?
    First, you don't cite the source of the statement in the OP, some of which is sound and some not so.

    Second, the bit about savings accounts being worthless isn't true. Our free checking account at a credit union pays 2.5% up to $15,000. A couple 36-month CDs earned a cumulative 9% on maturity.

    So the propagandist who wrote the piece should find a better place to bank, and tone down the lamentations.

    Note: I like threads that swerve and wander. You like a stiff trudge down a narrow path (to the beat of a drum.)

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    Does the source matter? or is it that you just can't google some "shoot the messenger" article and avoid the topic.

    I'll help you out though. The theme of the topic is corporate elites being bailed out by politicians at the expense of the taxpayer, and the economic environment created by quantitative easing. Interest rates change. Your "correction" will be incorrect in 6 months.

    Your "swerve and wander" seems more an excuse for drive-by rhetoric. The question become whether or not that's all you're capable of.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Does this ring true?

    The source matters.

    Go watch YouTube videos and take your pills.

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