Gun policy analysis thread.

[Lloyd]

Pre-pandemic, my wife, who is a nurse practitioner, did house calls in bad areas (during daylight hours). She opted to carry pepper spray, which she practiced with in nearby woods.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

My state has 47% of adults owning guns, just above the average for the country. I have never owned a gun and have not fired one since I was 15.

I have an older brother, same upbringing as mine, who owns quite a few handguns and trains shooting with his wife at the range because he is worried that Mexicans or African-Americans or leftist revolutionaries may someday invade his home to ransack his property. He lives in a gated community in Florida. There are more gators and manatees near him than human threats. But such is the nature of fear.

[Chuck Naill]

Is the point to change other member's minds about guns or to suggest common sense firearm ownership from those who choose to own them? In the wrong hands, most anything can be harmful including a BIC Cristal.

[scottt]

The last two wildfires here were caused by people shooting their guns in the tinder-dry National Forest. I heard they were playing with tracers or exploding ammo.

Anyone that plays with anything that could cause fire in that situation deserves contempt.

It's an acronym for Right Wing Whackjob. If you can't remember it, I'll gladly type it in full.

I'll bet you will, people like you do love the name calling.

Typical gun-nut deflection (cf. the assault rifle crap). It was a black military-type rifle with a bipod and big scope. Since he was screaming at me, I didn't inquire as to the exact specs.

Versus your knee-jerk 'sniper rifle' designation.

Most of them are ex-miiltary who got the ATF jobs on a vet preference. We got quite a few vet-prefs in the Forest Service, most of whom were incompetent bums, escaping jobs as federal grain inspectors or the like.

You know what they say about people when they seem to be surrounded by jerks, right?

Never experienced a NE winter, so I have no basis for comparison. Have you ever camped out at 11,000 ft. and –40°F?

Nope, not a fan of the intense cold, but sounds pretty cool.

[scottt]

Look, I answered sincerely. I don't feel unsafe, and I don't think gun ownership actually makes us safer. If you want guns to solve property crimes, I think that you're just trading up the sliding scale of fear, violence, and insanity. Or, you're just making gun companies rich.

How does it matter where I live? So that you can dismiss my answer? Don't ask a question that you then reject the sincere answer of because you think that my context is irrelevant. If I had agreed with you, would you have asked where I live?

There's another divide between people like you (no slur intended) and people like me, you don't feel unsafe having been robbed. I have been robbed and assaulted, and certainly didn't feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt that I would be ok. I feel that leaving the decision for my welfare in the hands of those who would assault others is not rational. That you do not marks a profound difference, and does that mean a solution can never be found?

So to wish to defend oneself is fearful or insane? Yeah, that's another point where we will disagree.

Not at all, you seem to be more than a little paranoid on how others think. I was just curious.

If you had still mentioned you don't lock your car or house, yes I would have asked.

[scottt]

Is it a coincidence that the two members who live in regions where one can leave their doors unlocked don't see any benefit to gun ownership?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Probably not. Though the fact that Tsherbs has been robbed and thinks that wanting to defend oneself with a gun is fearful or insane speaks volumes. But hey, we can all agree to disagree, right?

[scottt]

You're the mathematician. Tell us if there is anything to this sample and possible "correlation."

I've lived in three large cities, too, by the way. Bigger than yours. I've had murders on my street, robberies at gun point, an aborted fetus in a paper bag in a gutter outside my apartment, and one of the first cyanide/Tylenol deaths was around the corner from me. I've been spat on as a teacher in Boston and had my life threatened.

Still never wanted a gun. But that fat groundhog under my shed and eating some of my lettuce irks me to no end. My neighbors just shoot them. Not me.

So you've had murders on your street and never gave a thought to defending yourself? Or just with a gun?

[scottt]

"New Orleans to use civilians as crime-scene ‘detectives’ as slayings spike"
https://nypost.com/2022/09/25/new-or...id-slay-spike/

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Murder capital of the US, with, in some cases, two-hour 911 response times.

[scottt]

Is it a coincidence that the two members who live in regions where one can leave their doors unlocked don't see any benefit to gun ownership?

Bollocks! I already posted that we own hunting rifles and a .22 pistol to dispatch wildlife hit on the highway near our house.

Wyoming has the second highest rate of gun ownership in the US: 66.2%. Also a very high rate of suicide, domestic violence involving guns, and firearms accidents.

I don't want any weapons that are intended solely to threaten or kill other people in my house or anywhere near me.

In high school, I worked nights at a gas station on the Vegas Strip, a high-crime area. I recognized the risk, but wasn't afraid. Maybe I don't have chicken DNA.

Aren't you in the Boston area? Do you have an arsenal? Is that a coincidence? An oversight?

You seem driven to pose trivial objections and quibbles.

Ah, Chipotle, you do continue to amuse, thank you.

"Weapons intended solely to threaten or kill other people in my house or anywhere near me." is priceless, and worth sharing elsewhere.

Exactly which weapons are intended solely to threaten or kill other people? .22 have killed how many people? More than many other calibers, better toss that one.

You worked in a high-crime area, recognized the risk, but guns are bad, sure. You've got something, that's for sure.

There's obviously a reason for all the hatred, there usually is in such cases. But the reasoning is great, Chip, keep it coming.

[scottt]

Is it a coincidence that the two members who live in regions where one can leave their doors unlocked don't see any benefit to gun ownership?

Bollocks! I already posted that we own hunting rifles and a .22 pistol to dispatch wildlife hit on the highway near our house.

Wyoming has the second highest rate of gun ownership in the US: 66.2%. Also a very high rate of suicide, domestic violence involving guns, and firearms accidents.

I don't want any weapons that are intended solely to threaten or kill other people in my house or anywhere near me.

In high school, I worked nights at a gas station on the Vegas Strip, a high-crime area. I recognized the risk, but wasn't afraid. Maybe I don't have chicken DNA.

Aren't you in the Boston area? Do you have an arsenal? Is that a coincidence? An oversight?

You seem driven to pose trivial objections and quibbles.

I don't want any part of gun ownership, but I can see the rational. If I lived in a crime filled area, had neighbors who were shot, there were break-ins nearby, insufficient local policing, and family to protect, I might feel differently.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

And if I lived in a low/no-crime area, I might just have one or two for hunting. It is still a right, and just as I don't care for Chip's rambling, he has every right to say it. I don't question a need to practice a right, but trying to understand the other's way of thinking is always worthwhile.

Given the growing number of states with Constitutional carry and the number of bans that are being overturned, I don't think guns are going anywhere anytime soon.

[scottt]

Pre-pandemic, my wife, who is a nurse practitioner, did house calls in bad areas (during daylight hours). She opted to carry pepper spray, which she practiced with in nearby woods.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

I recall in the Boston area one or more rapes near Harvard station, and when the people wanted pepper spray, they were told they had to apply for FID cards and the wait was several months. Luckily the outrage helped change the law so now everyone can have it.

[scottt]

Is the point to change other member's minds about guns or to suggest common sense firearm ownership from those who choose to own them? In the wrong hands, most anything can be harmful including a BIC Cristal.

I'd say you have a far better chance at the latter than the former.

Unfortunately, common sense from those who don't like it always takes the form of more restrictions, and then when asked how exactly those restrictions would help, given that said restrictions would only affect the law-biding, the sound of crickets. Or they respond, "so you don't think we should have any laws?", which is not it at all.

Knives/hammers/hands and feet kill far more than those evil black rifles, but the fear-pushing of the media is on guns, because guns = a method to say no to control. Look at world history, see what happens after populations are disarmed.

I've suggested for common sense an increase in prosecution, especially for straw purchasers. Use prison labor to rebuild our infrastructure. Make prison a place you don't want to go (some of these career criminals seem quite indifferent to it) and so on.

Some hopeful politician in PA wants to release all second-degree murderers. IL de-criminalizing lots of previous felonies. Crime is up, punishment is down, our gov is making quite a few unpopular decisions, and on top of it all they want the civilians to give up their means for defense? Sorry, hard pass on that one.

But any discussion is welcome.

[Lloyd]

"Swastika-wearing ex-pupil kills 15 in Russian school shooting"
No assault rifles, no LEGAL guns, two guards on premises.... sad....

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ce-2022-09-26/

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

"Swastika-wearing ex-pupil kills 15 in Russian school shooting"
No assault rifles, no LEGAL guns, two guards on premises.... sad....

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ce-2022-09-26/

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

The NPR commentator said that he was copying elements of Columbine. And, as is often now the case, the plan included suicide. Very sad.

[TSherbs]

You're the mathematician. Tell us if there is anything to this sample and possible "correlation."

I've lived in three large cities, too, by the way. Bigger than yours. I've had murders on my street, robberies at gun point, an aborted fetus in a paper bag in a gutter outside my apartment, and one of the first cyanide/Tylenol deaths was around the corner from me. I've been spat on as a teacher in Boston and had my life threatened.

Still never wanted a gun. But that fat groundhog under my shed and eating some of my lettuce irks me to no end. My neighbors just shoot them. Not me.

So you've had murders on your street and never gave a thought to defending yourself? Or just with a gun?

Nope. Maybe you should expend some efforts to try to understand the other side, too. What is so surprising about a deeply-felt aversion to owning firearms? You can't imagine it?

[TSherbs]

But any discussion is welcome.

That's what we're doing.

[TSherbs]

Pre-pandemic, my wife, who is a nurse practitioner, did house calls in bad areas (during daylight hours). She opted to carry pepper spray, which she practiced with in nearby woods.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

I recall in the Boston area one or more rapes near Harvard station, and when the people wanted pepper spray, they were told they had to apply for FID cards and the wait was several months. Luckily the outrage helped change the law so now everyone can have it.

Yeah, pepper spray should be legal to carry. I have no problems with that.

[Chip]

Step away from the keyboard.

Show me your hands.

[Lloyd]

How very mature of you.


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

This is a good read for those who think the Second Amendment is about gun ownership.

"The Supreme Court has been clear that the Second Amendment’s reference to a “well-regulated militia” means well-regulated by the government. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/o...smid=share-url