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Thread: Gun policy analysis thread.

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    How do they enforce such a law?
    Other nations manage the problem.

    For once, you might do your own research instead of falling into a helpless rhetorical crouch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand
    This says that the owners need adequate means in their homes of securing their weapons. If doesn't say how anyone verifies of the safe is used.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect
    Why are you asking this? Are you worried that no one will comply? That only some will? That only half will? That only 3/4 will? That only the compliant and conscientious will? How does the rate of compliance matter to you?

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    I am sure it matters, but his point is valid. Other nations were touted and yet these glaring issues remain.

    Consider your concerns regarding non compliance and not being conscientious and apply it to other topic routinely discussed suich as the pandemic and contraception.

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    Lloyd (August 2nd, 2022)

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Dictionaries don't define language; the language at a time and place define the dictionary.
    Well, of course Lloyd. "Assault rifle" is an example of how people redefine terms to their political advantage. And an example of how some people don't pay attention enough to notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Change is a bitch.
    “A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks,” observed Orwell. “It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.”
    -George Orwell
    Orwell was a repressed wanker (or should I say "onanist" to keep things Biblical?)
    Appreciate it: I knew you could be counted on to give us a contemporary demonstration of slovenly language and foolish thoughts.
    The good news is that you're reading the Bible.

  4. #143
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    How do they enforce such a law?
    Other nations manage the problem.

    For once, you might do your own research instead of falling into a helpless rhetorical crouch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand
    This says that the owners need adequate means in their homes of securing their weapons. If doesn't say how anyone verifies of the safe is used.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect
    Why are you asking this? Are you worried that no one will comply? That only some will? That only half will? That only 3/4 will? That only the compliant and conscientious will? How does the rate of compliance matter to you?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    I am sure it matters, but his point is valid. Other nations were touted and yet these glaring issues remain.

    Consider your concerns regarding non compliance and not being conscientious and apply it to other topic routinely discussed suich as the pandemic and contraception.
    Yep... compliance. The same "boy crisis" macho-types will get a safe to show the authorities, but they'll never use them. They'll cite that it takes too long to get their weapons when an intruder appears.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  5. #144
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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    How do they enforce such a law?
    Other nations manage the problem.

    For once, you might do your own research instead of falling into a helpless rhetorical crouch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand
    This says that the owners need adequate means in their homes of securing their weapons. If doesn't say how anyone verifies of the safe is used.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect
    Why are you asking this? Are you worried that no one will comply? That only some will? That only half will? That only 3/4 will? That only the compliant and conscientious will? How does the rate of compliance matter to you?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    I am sure it matters, but his point is valid. Other nations were touted and yet these glaring issues remain.

    Consider your concerns regarding non compliance and not being conscientious and apply it to other topic routinely discussed suich as the pandemic and contraception.
    Yep... compliance. The same "boy crisis" macho-types will get a safe to show the authorities, but they'll never use them. They'll cite that it takes too long to get their weapons when an intruder appears.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    They may show their condoms and never use, birth control pill, but never take, masks and not wear ...yada, yada, yada. Why single out only gun owners?

    Some here are working on their far left fringe merit badge and are getting damn close. LOL!!!

  6. #145
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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    How do they enforce such a law?
    Other nations manage the problem.

    For once, you might do your own research instead of falling into a helpless rhetorical crouch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand
    This says that the owners need adequate means in their homes of securing their weapons. If doesn't say how anyone verifies of the safe is used.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect
    Why are you asking this? Are you worried that no one will comply? That only some will? That only half will? That only 3/4 will? That only the compliant and conscientious will? How does the rate of compliance matter to you?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    What's the point of a law, not a request, that can't be instituted?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect
    "instituted"?

    Do you mean "enforced"?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

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    Lloyd (August 2nd, 2022)

  8. #146
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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    I knew you could be counted on to give us a contemporary demonstration of slovenly language and foolish thoughts.
    The good news is that you're reading the Bible.
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    I get all my evil thoughts and behaviors from examples therein. It's a great compendium of murder, genocide, sin, sex, and false righteousness.

    Shucks, I'm just joshing. I don't get *all* my evil thoughts there...

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    Last edited by TSherbs; August 2nd, 2022 at 05:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Dictionaries don't define language; the language at a time and place define the dictionary.
    Well, of course Lloyd. "Assault rifle" is an example of how people redefine terms to their political advantage. And an example of how some people don't pay attention enough to notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Change is a bitch.
    “A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks,” observed Orwell. “It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.”
    -George Orwell
    Orwell was a repressed wanker (or should I say "onanist" to keep things Biblical?)
    Appreciate it: I knew you could be counted on to give us a contemporary demonstration of slovenly language and foolish thoughts.
    The good news is that you're reading the Bible.
    I get all my evil thoughts and behaviors from examples therein. It's a great compendium of murder, genocide, sin, sex, and false righteousness.

    Shucks, I'm just joshing. I don't get *all* my evil thoughts there...
    There's no need to try to "aw shucks" away your study of the Bible. You often mention what you've read in the Bible. Keep studying: you'll reach the part about dealing with evil thoughts and behavior.

  11. #148
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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Dictionaries don't define language; the language at a time and place define the dictionary.
    Well, of course Lloyd. "Assault rifle" is an example of how people redefine terms to their political advantage. And an example of how some people don't pay attention enough to notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Change is a bitch.
    “A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks,” observed Orwell. “It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.”
    -George Orwell
    Orwell was a repressed wanker (or should I say "onanist" to keep things Biblical?)
    Appreciate it: I knew you could be counted on to give us a contemporary demonstration of slovenly language and foolish thoughts.
    The good news is that you're reading the Bible.
    I get all my evil thoughts and behaviors from examples therein. It's a great compendium of murder, genocide, sin, sex, and false righteousness.

    Shucks, I'm just joshing. I don't get *all* my evil thoughts there...
    There's no need to try to "aw shucks" away your study of the Bible. You often mention what you've read in the Bible. Keep studying: you'll reach the part about dealing with evil thoughts and behavior.
    Casting them into pigs and running them off cliffs?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Dictionaries don't define language; the language at a time and place define the dictionary.
    Well, of course Lloyd. "Assault rifle" is an example of how people redefine terms to their political advantage. And an example of how some people don't pay attention enough to notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Change is a bitch.
    “A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks,” observed Orwell. “It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.”
    -George Orwell
    Orwell was a repressed wanker (or should I say "onanist" to keep things Biblical?)
    Appreciate it: I knew you could be counted on to give us a contemporary demonstration of slovenly language and foolish thoughts.
    The good news is that you're reading the Bible.
    I get all my evil thoughts and behaviors from examples therein. It's a great compendium of murder, genocide, sin, sex, and false righteousness.

    Shucks, I'm just joshing. I don't get *all* my evil thoughts there...
    There's no need to try to "aw shucks" away your study of the Bible. You often mention what you've read in the Bible. Keep studying: you'll reach the part about dealing with evil thoughts and behavior.
    Casting them into pigs and running them off cliffs?
    Keep studying.
    Your attempts at misdirection demonstrate you know where in the New Testament to look.

  13. #150
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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    The Bible? And gun policy?

    WTF?

    Back to gun problems, a couple first steps would be a) to remove the liabilty exemption for the makers and sellers of weapons that have no legitimate use except to murder people; b) to render adults who buy lethal high-power firearms for minors (i.e. their kids) responsible for the murders perpetrated by their dear little darlings; c) Set legal penalties for those whose involvement in gun crimes involves failing to secure the weapons used: you buy a gun, you take responsibility for it.

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Keep studying: you'll reach the part about dealing with evil thoughts and behavior.
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    You might want to suggest this to priests.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    The Bible? And gun policy?

    WTF?

    Back to gun problems, a couple first steps would be a) to remove the liabilty exemption for the makers and sellers of weapons that have no legitimate use except to murder people; b) to render adults who buy lethal high-power firearms for minors (i.e. their kids) responsible for the murders perpetrated by their dear little darlings; c) Set legal penalties for those whose involvement in gun crimes involves failing to secure the weapons used: you buy a gun, you take responsibility for it.
    You might want to add the equivalent of abetting those behaviors. For instance, a relative of friend that doesn't report these behaviors.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Keep studying: you'll reach the part about dealing with evil thoughts and behavior.
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    You might want to suggest this to priests.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect
    --redacted--

    Suffice to say, I agree

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    The Bible? And gun policy?

    WTF?

    Back to gun problems, a couple first steps would be a) to remove the liabilty exemption for the makers and sellers of weapons that have no legitimate use except to murder people; b) to render adults who buy lethal high-power firearms for minors (i.e. their kids) responsible for the murders perpetrated by their dear little darlings; c) Set legal penalties for those whose involvement in gun crimes involves failing to secure the weapons used: you buy a gun, you take responsibility for it.
    End the gun show loophole

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    You guys are making this too complicated. Just ban the offending firearms or make it so difficult to own and maintain that they are no longer wanted. Mandatory liability insurance (like car insurance), an extensive training education for adults, and thorough background checks would cause many to see the guns are too much trouble. I do agree that if an adult or parent makes the purchase, make it a felony.

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Keep studying: you'll reach the part about dealing with evil thoughts and behavior.
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    You might want to suggest this to priests.
    I include them as well.
    They know where to study.

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Keep studying: you'll reach the part about dealing with evil thoughts and behavior.
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    You might want to suggest this to priests.
    I include them as well.
    They know where to study.
    Remind the Pope while on his Canadian apology tour for the abduction, abuse, and murder of indigenous children.

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    On the supply side: ban manufacturing and sale to the public of high-powered firearms with no legitimate use for hunting, etc., particularly those weapons easily converted to automatic fire with high-capacity magazines, bump stocks, etc. Ghost guns should be subject to intense federal investigation and severe penalties, for making, selling, and possession. End the immunity from liability (both criminal and civil) for weapons makers and sellers. Close the gun show loophole with a bang.

    Demand side: ban gun adverts, except for hunting and target shooting, period. Assess severe penalties for those aimed at young males and playing on manhood, patriotism, etc. Have law enforcement observe activity at shooting ranges, in the same way they monitor drug dealing. Render adults who buy lethal high-power firearms for minors (i.e. their kids) criminally responsible for the murders perpetrated by their darlings; c) Set harsh penalties for those whose involvement in gun crimes involves failing to secure the weapons used: you buy a gun, you take responsibility for it. No bullshit excuses.

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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    I thought this article which I lifted from Medscape, was worth posting in this older thread. I apologize if the layout is a little bit off, I had to cut and paste it from the actual article.
    Are Mass Shootings Contagious?
    Kara Grant August 30, 2022
    When a mass shooting happens, another often follows in close succession. That's not just a feeling ― it's a fact.The devastating shooting on May 24 in Uvalde, Texas, which killed 19 children, two teachers,
    and injured 17 others, occurred 10 days after a supermarket shooting in Buffalo, New York,
    which resulted in 10 deaths. In 2021, a shooting at a massage parlor in Atlanta, which left eight
    dead, came less than a week before a shooting at a supermarket in Boulder, Colorado, that
    killed 10. And a 2019 shooting in Dayton, Ohio, on August 4 that killed nine people took place
    only a day after a Walmart shooting in El Paso, Texas, which claimed 22 lives.
    Contagion Theory
    Researchers argue that the clustering of mass shootings suggests that this type of violence
    spreads like a virus and should be treated as one.
    This theory ― called the "contagion effect" ― has been examined at length in cases of suicide,
    especially among teens and young adults. Studies have demonstrated that the majority of
    adolescents who attempt suicide have previously been exposed to the suicidal behavior of a
    peer.
    In many cases, mass shootings are also suicides, with shooters taking their own lives at the
    time of the shooting or not long after.
    "They have literally and figuratively given up on their life as they know it." said Joel Dvoskin,
    PhD, a clinical and forensic psychologist at the University of Arizona, Tucson, and former acting
    commissioner of mental health for New York state.
    According to contagion theory, mass shootings ― and the round-the-clock media coverage
    they generate ― lead to even more killings.
    A team of researchers at Arizona State University led by Sherry Towers, PhD, analyzed mass
    shooting data in 2015 to find out whether those events followed a similar pattern. Towers spent
    much of her career modeling the spread of infectious diseases, such as influenza, Ebola, and
    Zika.Towers and her colleagues discovered that a mass killing tended to give rise to more killings in
    its immediate aftermath. According to her evaluation of USA Today's mass shooting database, a
    second incident was most likely to occur within 13 days of the initial event.
    What Defines a Mass Shooting?
    The FBI defines a mass shooting as any incident in which four or more people die by gunfire.
    That definition, however, is not universally accepted. The lack of a standard definition
    complicates the the work of researchers who study contagion theory.
    Mother Jones magazine created an open-source database of mass killings that employs a
    similar definition but that includes only incidents that involve a person shooting indiscriminately
    in a public place.
    With this narrower definition, shootings involving organized crime, robberies, and domestic
    violence ― which make up the vast majority of shootings in which multiple fatalities occur in
    this country – are excluded. Events such as those that occurred in Sandy Hook or the killings in
    Highland Park, Ill inois, this past July would be included.
    The Gun Violence Archive categorizes mass shootings as any incident in which four or more
    people are shot but not necessarily killed, while Everytown for Gun Safety tallies mass
    shootings that take at least four lives.
    Medscape used these three databases to depict how dissimilar the data can be, depending on
    which definition of mass shooting is used.
    James Meindl, PhD, a professor of behavioral analysis at the University of Memphis who
    studies mass shootings, said parsing the differences between what happened in Uvalde and
    what happens during a shooting involving organized crime or domestic violence is crucial
    when thinking about intervention and prevention.
    "If you want to intervene, you have to know why the person engaged in this behavior in the first
    place," Meindl said. "The factors that led a person to commit gang violence, the factors in
    domestic violence, the factors in indiscriminate mass shootings ― those are all very different
    factors that would call for very different interventions."
    So, Should Mass Shootings Be Treated Like an Infectious Disease?
    Rather than using contagion theory, Meindl said he prefers to view mass shootings through the
    lens of "generalized imitation," a psychological concept involving the learned ability to mimic
    behaviors observed either in person or through the media. Behaviors "are not diseases that
    can spread on contact," he said.
    Gary Slutkin, MD, is an epidemiologist who pivoted from studying the spread of diseases such
    as tuberculosis, HIV, and cholera to trying to understand the epidemic of gun violence."The more you're exposed [to violence], the more likely you are to repeat it, just like the more you're exposed to COVID, the more likely you are to get it and give it to somebody else," Slutkin said. And just as people have varying degrees of susceptibility to COVID-19 and other infectious diseases, Slutkin argued that some are more susceptible to committing a mass shooting, depending on their level of isolation, personal "grievances, and their need for belonging or credit."
    To Slutkin, mass shootings ― and other forms of violence ― should be treated with the standard methods that public health officials would use to stop the spread of a contagious disease: detection and interdiction that would put a stop to potential events. The nonprofit organization that he founded, Cure Violence Global, employs "violence interrupters" to reach out to and engage with community members who might be at risk of being a victim of violence or of committing an act of violence, much as a public health worker would approach epidemic control.
    Research conducted on the effects of this method of reducing rates of violence suggests the approach works. In 2017, New York City saw a 63% reduction in gun injuries, according to a study from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. And after evaluating the effects of this approach in Chicago in 2014, researchers from the University of Illinois and the University of Chicago determined that there was a 19% reduction in shootings in the city. "The results of stopping an epidemic come really fast," Slutkin said. "But getting people to switch gears to the right kind of treatment happens really slowly."
    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  27. #160
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    Default Re: Gun policy analysis thread.

    Reading this thread was very eye-opening, so thanks for that.

    I find it interesting so many advocate for passing more restrictive laws, as if they think the criminals will obey them? I don't quite understand that line of thinking.

    It is already against the law to murder, and the criminals seem to have no problem ignoring that one.

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