Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 243

Thread: The Dobbs Decision

  1. #61
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Anytime the mothers life is in danger, and abortion is the only option, it must be an option.

    I have a problem putting a person in jail for choosing to abort. The SCOTUS might think it’s illegal, but that’s a narrow perspective.

    Again, since sex is as human as eating, preventing is more safe and prevents the moral dilemma. And, it’s a safer option with less mental anguish.
    So this means no elective abortions for anyone, right?

    No abortion pill, either?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    This isn't black and white or a cut off week for me. RU486 is the pill and that would probably make it physically easier for the female.

  2. #62
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Anytime the mothers life is in danger, and abortion is the only option, it must be an option.

    I have a problem putting a person in jail for choosing to abort. The SCOTUS might think it’s illegal, but that’s a narrow perspective.

    Again, since sex is as human as eating, preventing is more safe and prevents the moral dilemma. And, it’s a safer option with less mental anguish.
    So this means no elective abortions for anyone, right?

    No abortion pill, either?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    This isn't black and white or a cut off week for me. RU486 is the pill and that would probably make it physically easier for the female.
    So, you're not sure. That's fine. It's a complicated topic.

    Why do you snipe, then, at other's positions when you don't even have a clear one yourself?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  3. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Anytime the mothers life is in danger, and abortion is the only option, it must be an option.

    I have a problem putting a person in jail for choosing to abort. The SCOTUS might think it’s illegal, but that’s a narrow perspective.

    Again, since sex is as human as eating, preventing is more safe and prevents the moral dilemma. And, it’s a safer option with less mental anguish.
    So this means no elective abortions for anyone, right?

    No abortion pill, either?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    This isn't black and white or a cut off week for me. RU486 is the pill and that would probably make it physically easier for the female.
    So, you're not sure. That's fine. It's a complicated topic.

    Why do you snipe, then, at other's positions when you don't even have a clear one yourself?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    I don’t snipe. It is complicated because there is a child, that few consider or flip it off in their minds as a non person for convenience. I figure if I as minority voice cause one person to reconsider, it’s worth discussing.

  4. #64
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post

    I don’t snipe. It is complicated because there is a child, that few consider or flip it off in their minds as a non person for convenience.
    The part that I bolded is a snipe (you label those who disagree with you as less thoughtful and as ethically inferior. You have done this several times in this thread). It's not true that "few" consider the personhood of a fetus, and that most do this out of "convenience."

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    Lloyd (July 5th, 2022)

  6. #65
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post

    I don’t snipe. It is complicated because there is a child, that few consider or flip it off in their minds as a non person for convenience.
    The part that I bolded is a snipe (you label those who disagree with you as less thoughtful and as ethically inferior. You have done this several times in this thread). It's not true that "few" consider the personhood of a fetus, and that most do this out of "convenience."
    Have if your way, Ted. I know what you've posted and how it appears and what it communicates.

  7. #66
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Reno-Sparks, Nevada
    Posts
    257
    Thanks
    409
    Thanked 258 Times in 128 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    I don't see any moral dilemma regarding abortion. As long as I (or any woman) am assuming the substantial risks of pregnancy, I (or any woman) should have the right to terminate that pregnancy at any point prior to birth. Men (XY men) will never know what it is to be pregnant. They will never assume the risks of pre-eclampsia, eclampsia, gestational diabetes, ectopic pregnancy, postpartum sepsis or postpartum hemorrhage. All of those are very real risks, and they are by no means all of the risks. I'd wager that only a very tiny fraction of men have seen their workday go from zero to sixty when a pregnant or recently delivered woman suddenly starts to bleed out. I've been part of that zero to sixty when the phone calls came into the blood bank, and I go from just moving briskly through my workload to looking like a pinball on crack as I race to assemble a massive transfusion pack or several. It can happen that quickly.

    I didn't even mention the risks pregnant women encounter from the father of the growing fetus. Pregnancy is one of the times women are most likely to be killed by their partners. That one may be sociological rather than biological, but it's a significant risk all the same.

    The only risk for men that truly comes close to pregnancy is going to war. As a woman who did go to war, as horrible as war was, I'd still rather go to war than ever be pregnant again. That was true even when I still was of childbearing age. That I was able to undergo elective sterilization a couple of years before enlisting was fortuitous chance.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TFarnon For This Useful Post:

    Lloyd (July 6th, 2022), TSherbs (July 6th, 2022)

  9. #67
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Reno-Sparks, Nevada
    Posts
    257
    Thanks
    409
    Thanked 258 Times in 128 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    I don't honestly think that any man should have a say in the matter. First of all, it isn't a child until such time that it can survive outside of the mother, and even then with severely premature infants, I believe that it is horrifically immoral to subject any living being, much less any mammal to the painful and invasive measures needed to bring that premature infant to a point where it can stably and reliably survive outside of the mother. I'm not even there in the neonatal intensive care unit. I'm just the tech who supplies blood and blood products. I only see what I read in the patient record as I try to anticipate future needs of rare, highly perishable products like CMV seronegative, irradiated compatible platelets.

    A man doesn't risk his life with pregnancy. He doesn't. The mother does, and the risk is substantial.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TFarnon For This Useful Post:

    Lloyd (July 6th, 2022), TSherbs (July 6th, 2022)

  11. #68
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Here's what, under the circumstances, my governor is doing:

    https://apnews.com/article/abortion-...ccbc1e7b6d82e8

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  12. #69
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    944
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 237 Times in 184 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by TFarnon View Post
    I don't honestly think that any man should have a say in the matter. First of all, it isn't a child until such time that it can survive outside of the mother, and even then with severely premature infants, I believe that it is horrifically immoral to subject any living being, much less any mammal to the painful and invasive measures needed to bring that premature infant to a point where it can stably and reliably survive outside of the mother. I'm not even there in the neonatal intensive care unit. I'm just the tech who supplies blood and blood products. I only see what I read in the patient record as I try to anticipate future needs of rare, highly perishable products like CMV seronegative, irradiated compatible platelets.

    A man doesn't risk his life with pregnancy. He doesn't. The mother does, and the risk is substantial.
    You haven’t been keeping up with the times. Gender is just a social construct. Men can have babies now.
    Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

  13. #70
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TFarnon View Post
    I don't honestly think that any man should have a say in the matter. First of all, it isn't a child until such time that it can survive outside of the mother, and even then with severely premature infants, I believe that it is horrifically immoral to subject any living being, much less any mammal to the painful and invasive measures needed to bring that premature infant to a point where it can stably and reliably survive outside of the mother. I'm not even there in the neonatal intensive care unit. I'm just the tech who supplies blood and blood products. I only see what I read in the patient record as I try to anticipate future needs of rare, highly perishable products like CMV seronegative, irradiated compatible platelets.

    A man doesn't risk his life with pregnancy. He doesn't. The mother does, and the risk is substantial.
    You haven’t been keeping up with the times. Gender is just a social construct. Men can have babies now.
    Way to respond to a woman's sincere commentary with bullshit snark.

  14. #71
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    I was there in the NICU for my family and as a volunteer. It would be immoral in my opinion, and apparently most hospitals, not to attempt to save a premature child. Opinions like was expressed by a female is why all need to have a say. We can't live in a world where only a term child is considered appropriate to receive medical attention and be considered a person.

  15. #72
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    One thing nice about a forum is that everyone honestly shares their opinion. Even if I am shocked, I appreciate the honest opinions. Probably wouldn't get that over a beer at the pub.

  16. #73
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Thanks
    3,597
    Thanked 1,043 Times in 637 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I was there in the NICU for my family and as a volunteer. It would be immoral in my opinion, and apparently most hospitals, not to attempt to save a premature child. Opinions like was expressed by a female is why all need to have a say. We can't live in a world where only a term child is considered appropriate to receive medical attention and be considered a person.
    No one is saying that all premies MUST be aborted, just that some should be legally aborted.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Lloyd For This Useful Post:

    TFarnon (July 7th, 2022)

  18. #74
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I was there in the NICU for my family and as a volunteer. It would be immoral in my opinion, and apparently most hospitals, not to attempt to save a premature child. Opinions like was expressed by a female is why all need to have a say. We can't live in a world where only a term child is considered appropriate to receive medical attention and be considered a person.
    No one is saying that all premies MUST be aborted, just that some should be legally aborted.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Is that what she was saying? I didn't read it that way.

    What you might consider is looking at photos of premature children before deciding if such should be legally aborted. Perhaps you have and it isn't a concern as it is with me. My concern is that some are more bothered about sea turtles, puppies, and beached whales.

  19. #75
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    944
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 237 Times in 184 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Forgive my snark. My snark was to highlight the inconsistency of modern progressive ideologies.

    All I am saying is that dismissing or minimizing men’s opinions regard pro or anti life is sexist and a fallacy.
    Last edited by Bold2013; July 6th, 2022 at 01:46 PM.
    Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Bold2013 For This Useful Post:

    dneal (July 14th, 2022)

  21. #76
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Forgive my snark.

    All I am saying is that dismissing or minimizing men’s opinions regard pro or anti life is sexist and a fallacy.
    She gave her reasons. Why don't you address them?

    I gave similar reasons earlier, and no one addressed them.

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  22. #77
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,658
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 2,189 Times in 1,419 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I was there in the NICU for my family and as a volunteer. It would be immoral in my opinion, and apparently most hospitals, not to attempt to save a premature child. Opinions like was expressed by a female is why all need to have a say. We can't live in a world where only a term child is considered appropriate to receive medical attention and be considered a person.
    No one is saying that all premies MUST be aborted, just that some should be legally aborted.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect
    or that the legal abortion option is at least available. This is what "choice" means, for the pregnant women.

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  23. #78
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,630
    Thanks
    3,597
    Thanked 1,043 Times in 637 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    No one is denying anyone of any opinion on the subject. Heck, I can have any opinion I want on your faith. However, I can't restrict you from your choices. Why should men (or for that matter, anyone) determine what a woman can or can't do to protect her health?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to Lloyd For This Useful Post:

    TFarnon (July 7th, 2022)

  25. #79
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,793
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 898 Times in 690 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    I’m always going to side with those that have no choice in the matter. I loved being a NICU volunteer and learned much.

    We all have varied experiences and those experiences color our perceptions.

  26. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    944
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 237 Times in 184 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: The Dobbs Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    No one is denying anyone of any opinion on the subject. Heck, I can have any opinion I want on your faith. However, I can't restrict you from your choices. Why should men (or for that matter, anyone) determine what a woman can or can't do to protect her health?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Because we can be the voice of the unheard.
    Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to Bold2013 For This Useful Post:

    EricTheRed (July 14th, 2022)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •