The Rise of the Political Christian

[Chuck Naill]

I have been reading James Davison Hunter. One of his books is "To Change the World". One new concept for me is Faithful Presence which is simply obedience to Christ. It is the exercise of faith, hope, and love toward family, friends, community, neighbors, and enemies. He says this was modeled by Jesus. I agree.

He also contrasts these ideas with the Religious Right and Left.

I think he is on to something.

[Chuck Naill]

From something I am reading.

"Oh, Yeah? I’ll Teach You to Call Me Resentful!
If political power is the easiest form of power to use, mobilizing ressentiment is the easiest way to get political power.
Ressentiment is not merely resentment, but “anger, envy, hate,
rage, and revenge as the motive of political action.”18 You gain
power by cultivating grievances; everyone proclaims himself
a powerless victim of the powerful, in order to gain power.
Identifying enemies who have done us wrong and need to be
punished becomes the political activity.

Hence we are caught in a double bind. Everything public
becomes political, and everything political becomes a nightmare of hatred and injustice.
Christian attempts to influence culture have been characterized by the same trends. Lacking the ability to bring
people together spontaneously and organically—indeed,
often lacking even the awareness of such an alternative—we
have turned to politics as the natural and (effectively) sole
method of changing the world. And we have partaken of the
methods of ressentiment to do so. "

https://tgc-documents.s3.amazonaws.c...resence%27.pdf

[Chuck Naill]

Some modern Evangelicals promote the gospel of condemnation, and it has backfired. Humans judge every day and that is expected but judging each other only has the boomerang effect.

As Christ's apprentices, we should neither give or receive condemnation. I am a guilty as anyone for doing both, but I am now more aware of its deadly results.

[Chuck Naill]

I am reading the Dallas Willard book, Hearing God. Below is an abstracted paragraph.

"Of course, talking to God is an almost universal practice. The words
“Talking to God: An Intimate Look at the Way We Pray” covered the front
of Newsweek’s issue for January 6, 1992. The main article was devoted to
some sociological studies of the practice of prayer undertaken in the United
States. “This week,” the article said, “more of us will pray than will go to
work, or exercise, or have sexual relations. . . . 78 percent of all Americans
pray at least once a week; more than half (57 percent) report praying at least
once a day. . . . Even among the 13 percent of Americans who are atheists
or agnostics, nearly one in five still prays daily.”
As these studies also found, it is widely recognized that a major part of
prayer is listening to God and letting God direct us. But those who
experience a directing word from God rarely speak about it. Often they
have never spoken of it at all, even to their closest friends.

https://dwillard.org/books/hearing-god

[Kgbenson]

Some modern Evangelicals promote the gospel of condemnation, and it has backfired. Humans judge every day and that is expected but judging each other only has the boomerang effect.

Indeed - nothing is more newsworthy than when someone is caught doing that which they so vehemently argued against in the past. Church sex scandals, anti gay politicians and their trysts in bathrooms etc. And of course the weird notion to judge so many but forgive these guys their crimes because they are "good Christian men". Its stunning.

[TSherbs]

Chuck, I imagine that you would agree with this Christian group in criticizing Boebert for her political weaponization of the Bible this way:

https://www.newsweek.com/lauren-boeb...resign-1785401

[Chuck Naill]

Chuck, I imagine that you would agree with this Christian group in criticizing Boebert for her political weaponization of the Bible this way:

https://www.newsweek.com/lauren-boeb...resign-1785401

Probably not, Ted. She is welcome to express her opinions. The guilty are those that chose to vote for her and provided her with a platform. It is not as if she was hiding her heart from them.

This is what I was saying before and you thought I was being unfair to be critical of Putin. We can hide behind labels such as Christian, but we cannot hide behind discipleship. If she were to say she was a disciple of Jesus, it would be easy enough to read what Jesus said and compare his words and actions with hers. And, she might be a disciple of Jesus. I am no better than she is. I have made stupid statements. I have not acted wisely on more than a few occasions.

What bothers me more than anything she did was to take a verse out of context to promote a violent act. The US is not Israel and Biden is not the enemy of King David. She has been labeled a Christian Nationalist. This is the politicalization of Christianity and many have been led into error because they trust they are following the right path. The very best thing I could suggest is for those that consider themselves to be a Christian is to get a Bible with the words of Jesus in red, and focus for a month on those words. Matthew 5-7 would be a good starting place.

If Ms Boebert were to follow my advice she would be exposed to Jesus saying to love her neighbor as she loves herself, to treat others as she would want to be treated, and that the measure she is using to judge, Mr Biden, is the same as will be used against her. That she is in the proximity of Jesus means she is blessed. The Kingdom of God is available and near her.

[TSherbs]

[
What bothers me more than anything she did was to take a verse out of context to promote a violent act.

This is precisely what the criticism is. You actually agree with it, although you begin by saying that you don't.

[Chuck Naill]

[
What bothers me more than anything she did was to take a verse out of context to promote a violent act.

This is precisely what the criticism is. You actually agree with it, although you begin by saying that you don't.

I began by responding to your statement, "Chuck, I imagine that you would agree with this Christian group......." I responded, "probably not".

[TSherbs]

I know, Chuck. But then you restate their thesis and agree with it.

[Chuck Naill]

I know, Chuck. But then you restate their thesis and agree with it.

I said she is welcome to her opinion. It doesn't appear the online group would agree.

[TSherbs]

They do not say that she can't have opinions. Why would you change what they say?

[Chuck Naill]

I didn’t change what they said. Anytime someone quotes scripture, I take the time to go to that passage and read it for myself. Her use it is laughable. She doesn’t need to resign. She needs to learn to study the psalms

[TSherbs]

Chuck, your statements drift all over the place here. You say things, then say you don't say them, then object to points I'm not making, and I just seem to spend my time trying to get you back on the topic that starts it all.

Your opinions are welcome, I just can't follow any line of thinking.

I certainly acknowledge that you want to follow the teachings of Jesus in your life, and I support this and don't question that.

But I occasionally respond to other claims you make about the Bible or Christians or biblical history, and I try to stay on those topics because they are historical or exegetical and not personal. I'm not here to discuss personal faith (whether one believes or not) and I try never to criticize the faithful nor the agnostic nor the atheist merely for having faith or not.

[Chuck Naill]

Old news, but relevant.
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/...l-war-11768730

[Chuck Naill]

From The Reverend Franklin Graham,
"Graham wrote in his Facebook post:

It’s a shameful day for America as former President Donald J. Trump was indicted by a Manhattan grand jury. The Democrats have weaponized the legal system for their political gain while ignoring the current Administration’s faults and deficiencies.

There’s only One who can save this country, and that is God and God alone. Why should He even hear our prayers when we have turned our back on Him?

But I’m going to keep praying that God will intervene and save this nation so we will continue to be that beacon of hope for this very dark world."

What is Franklin saying? Does he understand the case? Is having sex while married, covering it up for political benefit, and trying to write it off Biblical? For many church attendees, they have no idea. They've never taken the time to study the scriptures for themselves but depend on the leaders. Franklin's only qualification for taking over a ministry was that he was the son of Billy Graham. For many of his followers, that it enough. Not that he is a bad person or anything, but why would you choose to follow?

[TSherbs]

Southern Baptist Convention is freaking out:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...-wars-00104174

[Chuck Naill]

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begins at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"


While the Baptists deal with their choices, it is more important that those outside consider their choices.

What I would hope is somebody, someone, considers what Jesus taught, the present availability of the kingdom of God.

[dneal]

You tried to introduce Trump into another thread to deflect from your unchristian behavior, but the thought occurred to me:

Trump has plenty of character flaws, but he also brought prosperity and security to this Christian nation. You believed lies about him being a racist and whatnot, and voted for the other side.

What was the result of that? Men dressed as women exposing themselves to children. Books teaching children to masturbate, engage in homosexual behavior, and mutilate their genitals. All from words that corrupted their minds.

Who is it determined to corrupt the youth? Weren't we warned about being fooled by sweet sounding words?

The lord does work in mysterious ways. Perhaps you should focus on the deeds and not the words.

Would Trump allow this sinful behavior? Would he celebrate it? What about DeSantis?

Perhaps Satan has fooled you yet again.

[Chuck Naill]

Both words and actions are important in spiritual formation. Words are knowledge or coming to know and understand. Actions are the fruit of that knowledge. This is a process and our discussions help me to put your thoughts against knowledge and form responses. At this point your intent is to belittle me in whatever way you can think of doing. There are things I know about you from your past that I intentionally do not bring up, because it would be hurtful to you as a person. You do not hold back, and that is fine. It helps me see you as the way most people think. The same is true for other members here.

I am not, with my spiritual formation process attempting to set you straight. I have no emotion or feelings the guides me in how I think, or at least I try not to. I want the basis of my thought to be based on something that is knowable and that evidence could be garnered to support. This guides my concern for the drag shows, abortion, who I must choose when voting, and all of the people who seem to be dominated by their bodies, and those that have decided there is no soul.

Realistically, from what you have wrote, you do not understand what you're wanting me to do. Essentially, you were telling me, "Since I know Jesus better than you, this is what you should do". Yet, you have never said, I am a disciple, like you, on the path to the Kingdom of God and this is where I think you, Chuck, have fallen off the path. You have enough information that makes you dangerous to yourself, and to others who decide you are on the right path. You are not dangerous to me, unless you decide, like Seny did, to kill me, but then that's only my body you destroy.

Would Trump allow? Any rational person who has been following what Trump said and did since 2016, and anyone following his career, would know that his life has been characterized by following whatever path that allows him to get what he wants. To expect him to give that up and champion children because it is the morally correct support isn't thinking. He does what benefits him the most and no one, even you, would stand in his way. He would destroy you and all you hold dear if you tried. It is you who have been fooled.

Clinton has her own problems and that is granted. So does Biden. I would prefer John Kasich and have said so several times, but he is not running. It is unfortunate that those who could be a good leader do not and those that can't do.