Contraception

[Chip]

In cultures where patriarchy and male primogeniture are the rule, women are forced to endure repeated (often unwanted) pregnancies in a struggle to produce a male heir.

This isn't just a third-world issue. Look up Henry VIII. Or watch The Crown.

[Bold2013]

My wife covered her belly bottom with a bandaid while pregnant so it didn’t poke out so much.

[Chip]

My wife covered her belly bottom with a bandaid while pregnant so it didn’t poke out so much.

Her belly or her bottom? Or both?

(Repeated question: do you look at what you've typed before posting?)

[TFarnon]

Reeling this back in to contraception--I believe I posted fairly extensively about contraception in the Dobbs Decision thread. If not, on Reddit somewhere...I'm not in the mood to go post-stalk myself to find it, and I'm definitely not in the mood to type it all again (all off the top of my head, because I'm actually interested in the physiology and stuff like that). The takeaway from it was that there isn't a 100 percent reliable method for women other than a hysterectomy. A hysterectomy is major, major surgery, and not to be taken lightly. Ovariectomy would accomplish the same thing except that it's not nearly as easy as it sounds. Imagine trying to find two small grapes in an adult human's abdominal cavity. Sure, you know about where they should be, but if any of you have ever done any kind of dissection, you know that it's not as easy as the diagrams would indicate. It's just not.

Permanent surgical options for women aside, that leaves barrier devices, which are inherently error-prone due to there being humans involved; IUDs, which have their own issues; and pharmacological interventions. Those all have their own risks and benefits, and they all have nonzero failure rates.

Male vasectomies aren't 100% foolproof, either. Never mind that having assisted on and performed (one) feline neuter procedure, and my cheerful willingness to try almost anything once if the situation demands, I can definitely see the possible pitfalls involved in the procedure.

It may be satisfying to announce that the solution to abortion is to make contraception universally and easily available, but reality isn't nearly so kind. Universal, easy access to contraception would probably reduce abortion rates, but it wouldn't eliminate a need for the procedure in cases like acephaly or fetal demise. It wouldn't eliminate the need for the procedure in cases of sexual assault and coercive incest. It wouldn't eliminate the need for the procedure in those instances where contraceptives failed despite both partners' best efforts.

And having to go from dozing in front of my monitor because suddenly I have the luxury of a lull to full speed asses and elbows putting together a massive transfusion pack, I know that pregnancy and childbirth have very real and very substantial risks. A woman shouldn't be compelled to take those risks if she chooses not to, any more than she should be compelled to go skydiving or driving drunk.

[Niner]

Sometimes it's right to force an unwilling person out of an aircraft while in flight.

[Bold2013]

Lost me with comparing pregnancy/birth to sky diving and driving drunk.

[Lloyd]

Uh oh.... here's an interesting direction on this

Her Ex-Husband Is Suing A Clinic Over The Abortion She Had Four Years Ago
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/e...on-roe-arizona

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

Interesting, how?

[Lloyd]

Interesting, how?

If you didn't read the article, it opens with the following

Nearly four years after a woman ended an unwanted pregnancy with abortion pills obtained at a Phoenix clinic, she finds herself mired in an ongoing lawsuit over that decision.

A judge allowed the woman’s ex-husband to establish an estate for the embryo, which had been aborted in its seventh week of development. The ex-husband filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the clinic and its doctors in 2020, alleging that physicians failed to obtain proper*informed consent*from the woman as required by Arizona law.

Across the U.S., people have sued for negligence in the death of a fetus or embryo in cases where a pregnant person has been killed in a car crash or a pregnancy was lost because of alleged wrongdoing by a physician. But a court action claiming the wrongful death of an aborted embryo or fetus is a more novel strategy, legal experts said.

The experts said this rare tactic could become more common, as anti-abortion groups have signaled their desire to further limit reproductive rights following the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in*Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, which overturned*Roe v. Wade. The Arizona lawsuit and others that may follow could also be an attempt to discourage and intimidate providers and harass plaintiffs’ former romantic partners, experts said.

Lucinda Finley, a law professor at the University at Buffalo who specializes in tort law and reproductive rights, said the Arizona case is a “harbinger of things to come” and called it “troubling for the future.”

So, even abortions that have happened in the past, and abortions in states where they're currently legal, may become legal targets.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

.... . The Arizona lawsuit and others that may follow could also be an attempt to discourage and intimidate providers and harass plaintiffs’ former romantic partners, experts said.

Lucinda Finley, a law professor at the University at Buffalo who specializes in tort law and reproductive rights, said the Arizona case is a “harbinger of things to come” and called it “troubling for the future.”

Yep

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[Chip]

I looked at it and found it not so much interesting as nasty, vindictive, and wrong.

He obviously wants more control over his wife than she's willng to grant.

[TSherbs]

I looked at it and found it not so much interesting as nasty, vindictive, and wrong.

He obviously wants more control over his wife than she's willng to grant.

Ex-wife now, I think. At least she's not married to that alleged asshole any more.

When did he set up that "estate" in an embryo? WTF? Was the dude dying at the time and just eager to get the paperwork done? Or, worse.

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[Lloyd]

After the cells ceased to be active. That's a large part of the issue.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

After the cells ceased to be active.

Yeah, four years later!

He took her to the three appointments.

The details in the article suggest that he was a controlling, abusive bastard.

Whining, vindictive shit. "I don't want the money, I just want to make sure that this doesn't happen to other husbands." What, have a spouse fully empowered to make her own medical decisions, even about the status of her womb?

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[TSherbs]

When women say that men (some, many?) want to control women's bodies via the historically and traditionally patriarchal system of just and cultural expectations, they aren't wrong. Evidence is all around us.

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[Chuck Naill]

Vasectomy is an excellent option. It’s what I would recommend and it’s effective because on post surgicall follow up a semen sample is tested.

[TFarnon]

Two sources of failure immediately come to mind: The first is the patient who doesn't go for follow-up to check that the vasectomy did, in fact, render him sterile; and any number of laboratory issues from a specimen that sat too long at the wrong temperature after collection to an inexperienced tech examining the specimen. Human error makes almost nothing foolproof.

[Chuck Naill]

If you follow the urologist’s instructions…….

Don’t be misinformed!!!

[TFarnon]

If you follow the urologist’s instructions…….

Don’t be misinformed!!!

Seriously? If you aren't aware how awful American humans are at following instructions, you are the one who is misinformed.

[Chuck Naill]

If you follow the urologist’s instructions…….

Don’t be misinformed!!!

Seriously? If you aren't aware how awful American humans are at following instructions, you are the one who is misinformed.

You are the one suggesting the procedure doesn't work. Bringing up noncompliance is a form of "what-about-this" and has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a vasectomy. It is like saying medications don't work because you failed to take them.