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Thread: Since folks like to talk about…

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Since folks like to talk about…

    …threats to democracy, authoritarian Presidencies, etc…

    The ‘Climate Emergency’ Trumps Democracy

    Have you ever gotten the sense that Democratic concerns about the threat to American democracy aren’t entirely sincere?

    Perhaps it’s the efforts of party strategists to boost conspiracy-curious, MAGA-flavored Republican candidates in the primaries only so they can mourn the GOP’s authoritarianism. Maybe it’s Democrats’ claim that the Supreme Court is making “a mockery of democracy” by remanding divisive social issues to the various legislatures, to which Democrats have responded by doing exactly what the Court recommended in seeking to codify those rights in legislation. Or it could be that the party responds to legislative setbacks by threatening to usurp the powers it isn’t specifically granted by Congress. At least, that’s how the president reportedly plans to respond to congressional lethargy on one of the many exigencies of our time: the “climate emergency.”

    For months, progressive activists have lobbied the Biden administration to declare a “climate emergency” and to impose restrictions on private enterprise commensurate with the crisis. The president is reportedly listening to these enthusiasts and is prepared to do just that. It was not, however, any event or statistic that allegedly convinced Joe Biden to act. The failure of the people’s elected representatives in Congress to empower the executive branch has apparently convinced him to seize and exercise new authority.

    The president’s forthcoming power grab was reportedly inspired by the breakdown of negotiations over new federal spending initiatives designed to support green technologies while making it more expensive to produce power through conventional means. Owing to the worsening economic climate, Sen. Joe Manchin refused to support this measure. This act of prudence led prominent Democratic influencers to label him the “man who single-handedly doomed humanity,” consigning us all to a future dominated by “barren croplands, flooded homes, and incinerated communities.”

    It is precisely Congress’s explicit refusal to authorize the executive branch to execute new climate change regulations that has convinced Democrats the president must exercise those undelegated powers. “This also unchains the president from waiting for Congress to act,” said Oregon Sen. Jeff Merkley of the still very fettered president. “Free at last,” Rhode Island Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse declared. “With legislative climate options now closed, it’s now time for executive Beast Mode.” And yet, the value proposition associated with declaring a “climate emergency” seems to be primarily in the declaration itself. What the president is supposed to do remains vague.

    The Washington Post noted that activists believe the usurpation they envision “would allow the president to halt crude oil exports, limit oil and gas drilling in federal waters, and direct agencies including the Federal Emergency Management Agency to boost renewable energy sources.” The Biden administration has thus far balked at restricting oil exports because America’s European allies depend on U.S. energy exports to offset Russian supplies. The White House already produced a plan to limit federal leases offshore for the next five years and has canceled three oil and gas lease sales in the Gulf of Mexico and off the Alaskan coast even in the absence of emergency powers. Reorienting FEMA away from disaster response and toward social engineering would expand the agency’s remit, sap it of authority, and commit it to tasks it cannot perform while sacrificing its core mission.

    Moreover, as the Supreme Court recently ruled in West Virginia v. EPA, the executive branch has been assuming authority that “Congress had conspicuously declined to enact itself” for years. That decision put an end to that agency’s apparent presumption that “Congress implicitly tasked it, and it alone, with balancing the many vital considerations of national policy implicated in the basic regulation of how Americans get their energy” when there’s “little reason to think Congress did so.” These constitutional impediments do not dissolve simply because Democrats believe the Constitution is unequal to the imperatives of the moment.

    But the activists are angry. They demand action, regardless of whether that action is effective or backed by the imprimatur of America’s democratic institutions. And the president needs those activists. In their absence at the polls in November, the defeat Democrats expect to endure could turn into a rout. The mechanisms of self-government have become an obstacle to realizing Democratic goals, so those mechanisms must be stilled. It’s enough to make you wonder if left-wing laments about “the death of American democracy” are genuine.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    England's melting. France is on fire. Australia is either on fire or flooded. Millions are displaced by Bangladesh floods. New Mexico had huge wildfires in early spring. Alaska wildfires have burn 3 million acres so far this year. Glen Canyon and Lake Mead reservoirs, on the Colorado River, have sunk close to a level at which dams can no longer generate hydropower.

    And you think this is a chickenshit political tussle?

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    England's melting. France is on fire. Australia is either on fire or flooded. Millions are displaced by Bangladesh floods. New Mexico had huge wildfires in early spring. Alaska wildfires have burn 3 million acres so far this year. Glen Canyon and Lake Mead reservoirs, on the Colorado River, have sunk close to a level at which dams can no longer generate hydropower.

    And you think this is a chickenshit political tussle?
    This line of thinking is brought to you by the same people who mandate electric cars and then won't let you charge them because there's not enough electricity.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Not to mention how they will significantly increase electricity costs after the switch.

    It’s always about power and money…
    Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    This line of thinking is brought to you by the same people who mandate electric cars and then won't let you charge them because there's not enough electricity.
    You really are a reactionary crank. Vaccines. Electric cars. Climate issues.

    I've installed solar PV power on two houses, in 2004 and 2011. Both paid off in 7-8 years and have been trouble-free. We presently generate more electricity than we use. I designed the second system with enough surplus to charge an EV, which we'll buy in the next year or two.

    We drive a 2000 Honda Insight, a hybrid that averages 60 mpg. I haven't calculated our savings in fuel and money for a while, but it's more than paid for the car.

    I'm not sure why you react with such hostility to sensible, practical measures.

    Is Joe Manchin a hero of yours?

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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Going in debt to save on fuel and electricity is a complicated decision.

    Better is debt free car getting 15 mpg than a financed $35,000 car hat gets 60mpg. I just did some calculations and the gas guzzler wins.

    Plus, those batteries can be very costly to replace.

    That said, I think solar is a great idea. I’ve just had experience with solar spot lights, but I do enjoy the free lights for the house and utility barn.

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    This line of thinking is brought to you by the same people who mandate electric cars and then won't let you charge them because there's not enough electricity.
    You really are a reactionary crank. Vaccines. Electric cars. Climate issues.

    I've installed solar PV power on two houses, in 2004 and 2011. Both paid off in 7-8 years and have been trouble-free. We presently generate more electricity than we use. I designed the second system with enough surplus to charge an EV, which we'll buy in the next year or two.

    We drive a 2000 Honda Insight, a hybrid that averages 60 mpg. I haven't calculated our savings in fuel and money for a while, but it's more than paid for the car.

    I'm not sure why you react with such hostility to sensible, practical measures.

    Is Joe Manchin a hero of yours?
    I don't know what's more amazing. Your total lack of self awareness (i.e.: the "reactionary crank" comment, given the tenor of most all of your posts in this section), or your inability to grasp a topic and not turn it into something irrelevant or some narcissistic story-time. Your solar panels or Honda insight have absolutely nothing to do with this thread, and aren't going to solve "climate change". Your Insight isn't even an electric car. It's a gas-burning hybrid. Dear god you are dense.

    You want snark and crankiness? There it is. Enjoy.

    The narrative of the left is littered with claims of Trump's authoritarianism. How he is a dictator, a "literal Hitler", etc... Yet here we see those same radicals insisting the executive do the very thing they (with no evidence) claimed Trump was doing.

    But for those who can see a larger picture, and could pass an 8th grade civics class; there is an enormous danger in the executive leveraging a "crisis" or "emergency" to assume powers they are not Constitutionally given.

    You would think they would learn that these things backfiring, like the "nuclear option" they invoked being used against them, like the President using his pen and phone, would result in some semblance of hesitation for further radical changes; but not apparently. Let's get rid of the filibuster. Let's get the President to invoke power he doesn't have. What happens when control belongs to the opposing side? The toddler tantrum simply changes from demands to whining.

    These same geniuses who have more than doubled the price of gasoline in a year, have the media warning of nation-wide "rolling blackouts", and can't manage to charge the electric cars they want; want to bankrupt the country with a "green new deal" using sources of energy that clearly cannot provide sufficient capacity and are laden with their own ecological problems.

    They could come to the table with sensible ideas (Dan Crenshaw has a few) on how we could transition to natural gas and nuclear - over time - but they won't. They apparently would rather ram more stupid ideas down everyone's throats and then run on how they've identified a problem (that they deny causing) that they alone can fix. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    Joe Manchin is a hero to every sensible American.
    Last edited by dneal; July 20th, 2022 at 03:13 PM.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    “there is an enormous danger in the executive leveraging a "crisis" or "emergency" to assume powers they are not Constitutionally given.”

    Well said.
    Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    “there is an enormous danger in the executive leveraging a "crisis" or "emergency" to assume powers they are not Constitutionally given.”

    Well said.
    Did you ever notice how people praise executive orders when it's for something they want enacted and deplore them when it's for something they oppose?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    “there is an enormous danger in the executive leveraging a "crisis" or "emergency" to assume powers they are not Constitutionally given.”

    Well said.
    Did you ever notice how people praise executive orders when it's for something they want enacted and deplore them when it's for something they oppose?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    After reading today's op-ed piece where 8 writers are saying they were "wrong about" various topics, it caused me to think about my own tendency to see 2022 with a 1990 concept. I see it in myself and often hear as folks tend to repeat what they want to think is true. Brooks discusses, while at the NY Journal he took trips to Russia and came to believe the problem was land ownership, he now knows the problem was rule of law.

    It is like seeing the January 6th insurrection as people wanting Trump when what they were really rebelling against is coastal elites and progressives making white males feel they are loosing their place. It is the same with vaccines and Fauci, they don't want anyone they don't trust telling them what to do. Obama was right, although I was insulted at the time, they cling to their guns or religion".

    I am having to take a fresh look at many things with which I thought I was settled. I am pro life, but not allowing a female to choose bothers me. And not allowing a rape or incest victim freedom is immoral. I also don't like a minority imposing their Bible on the unwilling majority. If you think divorce is against God, don't get one. If you think abortion is wrong, don't get one. Let others live as they choose. It is their life. And it is not as if the Evangelicals can point a condescending finger at others suggesting they have the answers. And, saying "I am not perfect, but I am saved" is disrespectful to others and Jesus.

    Anyway, the parting comments from Brooks today,
    "Sometimes in life you should stick to your worldview and defend it against criticism. But sometimes the world is genuinely different than it was before. At those moments the crucial skills are the ones nobody teaches you: how to reorganize your mind, how to see with new eyes."

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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    “there is an enormous danger in the executive leveraging a "crisis" or "emergency" to assume powers they are not Constitutionally given.”

    Well said.
    Did you ever notice how people praise executive orders when it's for something they want enacted and deplore them when it's for something they oppose?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect
    I actually have not seen this. I have seen particular decisions criticized, but I have not seen a flipflop on the actual power to do it. Sometimes the frequency of use is criticized. But presidents can run the executive branch. Who would object to that (in principle)?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Better is debt free car getting 15 mpg than a financed $35,000 car hat gets 60mpg. I just did some calculations and the gas guzzler wins.
    Perhaps, if your sole criterion is your money and your thinking is very short-term. But I think you figured wrong.

    FYI, we bought the car, two years old and very low miles, for $12k cash, and have driven it for 16 years, or 116,000 miles. The total mileage is 134,000. The average mpg (instrument readout) is 58.5. That yields a lifetime fuel consumption of 2291 gal. and 1983 gal for our use. With an average fuel cost (2000 to present) of $3.00, that gives a total of $6873 lifetime and $5949 during our use.

    For 134,000 miles, the 15 mpg car would burn 8933 gallons, or 6642 gallons more. With an average fuel cost of $3.00 per gallon that's $26,799 to date.

    $26,799 – $6873 = $19,926 more in fuel costs for the guzzler (which is more than we paid for the hybrid).

    Other than regular service, we've had very few maintenance costs. About three years ago we replaced the Motor Assist battery: about $3000.

    Typical major service for a V8 engine can run from $3000 - $7500.

    (Not to mention the damage to air, water, climate, and other things you don't care about.)
    Last edited by Chip; July 21st, 2022 at 03:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Better is debt free car getting 15 mpg than a financed $35,000 car hat gets 60mpg. I just did some calculations and the gas guzzler wins.
    Perhaps, if your sole criterion is your money and your thinking is very short-term. But I think you figured wrong.

    FYI, we bought the car, two years old and very low miles, for $18k cash, and have driven it for 16 years, or 116,000 miles. The total mileage is 134,000. The average mpg (instrument readout) is 58.5. That yields a lifetime fuel consumption of 2291 gal. and 1983 gal for our use. With an average fuel cost (2000 to present) of $3.00, that gives a total of $6873 lifetime and $5949 during our use.

    For 134,000 miles, the 15 mpg car would burn 8933 gallons, or 6642 gallons more. With an average fuel cost of $3.00 per gallon that's $26,799 to date.

    $26,799 – $6873 = $19,926 more in fuel costs for the guzzler (which is more than we paid for the hybrid).

    Other than regular service, we've had very few maintenance costs. About three years ago we replaced the Motor Assist battery: about $3000.

    Typical major service for a V8 engine can run from $3000 - $7500.

    (Not to mention the damage to air, water, climate, and other things you don't care about.)
    Assuming makes an ass out of you and me.

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    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    (Not to mention the damage to air, water, climate, and other things you don't care about.)
    Since you care so much about the environment, are you vegan? If so, for how long?
    This isn't a snarky question. I'm a very strict vegetarian, but I don't follow a vegan diet. I went vegan for a while but, due to absorption issues, I still eat (actually, drink) milk.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    We don't eat beef or much red meat in general. We use to hunt within a short distance of our place, but are getting a bit old to drag a deer or antelope through the sagebrush. Chicken about twice a month. Wild-caught fish from a fishermans' co-op. Eggs, perhaps a dozen per week. We eat cheese but use oat milk instead of cow. With a garden and a year-round greenhouse, I grow most of our veg, which eliminates the transportation issues of vegan diets in areas such as this unsuited to growing crops.

    The greenhouse has a solar collector system and DC pump that provide radiant floor heat, even in winter. Any AC power (lights, fan) comes from our main 4.2 kW solar system.





    Ripe tomatoes in December.

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
    What did I assume? You gave me vague BS and I gave you actual figures.

    Aim higher. Stop pissing on your shoes.

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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    We don't eat beef or much red meat in general. We use to hunt within a short distance of our place, but are getting a bit old to drag a deer or antelope through the sagebrush. Chicken about twice a month. Wild-caught fish from a fishermans' co-op. Eggs, perhaps a dozen per week. We eat cheese but use oat milk instead of cow. With a garden and a year-round greenhouse, I grow most of our veg, which eliminates the transportation issues of vegan diets in areas such as this unsuited to growing crops.

    The greenhouse has a solar collector system and DC pump that provide radiant floor heat, even in winter. Any AC power (lights, fan) comes from our main 4.2 kW solar system.





    Ripe tomatoes in December.
    Can you open the greenhouse roof? What's in it now? Nothing?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Impressive set-up!
    When you say you eat cheese but use oat milk, do you mean you drink oat milk or that you use it to make cheese?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Making cheese is beyond my capability. We use it for drinking and in recipes that call for milk.

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since folks like to talk about…

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Can you open the greenhouse roof? What's in it now? Nothing?
    Don't understand the question. The roof is 6-wall polycarbonate, R 3.8, to carry the snow load and insulate against the cold of our winters. Along the ridge is a row of clerestory vents, with thermal-piston devices that open and close them. There are low corner vents, with similar thermal devices, that open at 70°F for passive ventilation. On really hot days, I use a fan to move more air.



    Inside it's a green madhouse. Very productive.

    Last edited by Chip; July 21st, 2022 at 09:13 PM.

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