Since folks like to talk about…

[Chuck Naill]

He is winning when you respond.

When I respond to Chip? That's some ego.

Kinda sorta. I think he likes your and Chip's attention. Just kidding more than anything, Ted.

[Chip]

Grant us to put away the leaven of malice and wickedness. . .

The Book of Common Prayer

[Chuck Naill]

Grant us to put away the leaven of malice and wickedness. . .

The Book of Common Prayer

You go first and I'll follow, Chip.

[Chip]

Don't make promises you don't intend to keep.

[Chuck Naill]

I no longer have a propane tank,Chip.

[Chip]

I no longer have a propane tank,Chip.

The 500 gal. tank was here when we bought the house. We use it for a fireplace insert and a demand water heater (much less energy than a conventional electric model). Our rural electric co-op goes down pretty often and in winter (cold here) we need a backup for heating and cooking. The former owners refilled it 3-4 times per year. We fill it once, about 350 gal.

You don't have solar panels or a wind turbine, and you drive a clunker that gets 15 mpg.

Take a break from the neal/naill attack force and calculate your carbon footprint (if it's not too hard for you), then get back to me.

Meanwhile, over and out.

[TSherbs]

I no longer have a propane tank,Chip.

The 500 gal. tank was here when we bought the house. We use it for a fireplace insert and a demand water heater (much less energy than a conventional electric model). Our rural electric co-op goes down pretty often and in winter (cold here) we need a backup for heating and cooking. The former owners refilled it 3-4 times per year. We fill it once, about 350 gal.

You don't have solar panels or a wind turbine, and you drive a clunker that gets 15 mpg.

Take a break from the neal/naill attack force and calculate your carbon footprint (if it's not too hard for you), then get back to me.

Meanwhile, over and out.

You didn't have to explain this. It was a dumb thing that dneal brought up to begin with, scanning your property pics for whatever fodder he could find. I don't know why Chuck jumped on board with that, too.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chip]

Malice can always find a mark to shoot at, and a pretense to fire.

—Charles Simmons

[Chuck Naill]

I no longer have a propane tank,Chip.

The 500 gal. tank was here when we bought the house. We use it for a fireplace insert and a demand water heater (much less energy than a conventional electric model). Our rural electric co-op goes down pretty often and in winter (cold here) we need a backup for heating and cooking. The former owners refilled it 3-4 times per year. We fill it once, about 350 gal.

You don't have solar panels or a wind turbine, and you drive a clunker that gets 15 mpg.

Take a break from the neal/naill attack force and calculate your carbon footprint (if it's not too hard for you), then get back to me.

Meanwhile, over and out.

You didn't have to explain this. It was a dumb thing that dneal brought up to begin with, scanning your property pics for whatever fodder he could find. I don't know why Chuck jumped on board with that, too.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

It occured to me that I also had a propane tank because I lived too far out to access natural gas. In 2000, when the house was built, gas was a reasonable heat source over electric heat pumps.

And, it occurred to me that when we point our fingers, as Chip does, at others, we set ourselves up for others point their fingers at us. No one is as "green" as we might be.

The conversation should be to understand. Chip paraded himself as something he could never sustain. @dneal just exposed him.

[TSherbs]

Chip paraded himself as something he could never sustain.

No he didn't. What are you talking about?

And dneal did not "expose" anything. This bullshit about a propane tank is a total canard. I can't believe that we're even talking about it. He didn't claim to be a zero-carbon user, nor even a net zero energy consumer. What are you guys going on about? The guy has a propane tank. Who gives a shit? He lives in the Wyoming mountains, for chrissake. Here in Maine, where we have snow from November to April, many homes also have propane tanks cuz whatever we heat our houses with has to come in on trucks (I also don't have water or sewer service, but that is not so uncommon). Unless yu cut your own hardwood trees down and use only wood to heat your home, then you either get your heat here from coal-fired electric plants (mostly, and its the stupidest way to heat a home in Maine) or it comes to your house in a fucking truck (wood, oil, or propane). The best thing to do is to collect your own water, use the sun's energy, grow some of your own food, and otherwise use as little energy to heat and cool your home as you can. Sounds like Chip does a bunch of these things. More than I do!

<shaking my head in disbelief>

[Chip]

The conversation should be to understand. Chip paraded himself as something he could never sustain. @dneal just exposed him.

Guess I made you feel guilty.

Live with it.

[Chuck Naill]

No guilt here. As I have said, you are doing what you want to do and can do. I am doing the same.

[Chuck Naill]

Anyone else ever consider the carbon footprint of these military operations around the globe. Sort of make us look silly to be fretting about a propane tank.

[Chip]

‘Reality is scary’: climate culture war heats up for UK meteorologists

Helena Horton Environment reporter
Mon 1 Aug 2022

Discussing the weather has long been a harmless British pastime, with forecasters relied on to ruin bank holidays with their predictions of drizzle or give good news of some gentle summer sunshine.

But now TV meteorologists have found themselves on the frontline of the climate culture war after extreme temperatures hit England last month, with records smashed and highs of 40.3C (104.5F).

Laura Tobin is well known as the chirpy weather forecaster for Good Morning Britain. She is popular with viewers and has 200,000 Twitter followers. But she has found herself spending her time battling climate deniers as her job has tipped from giving updates on the mild British weather to charting the terrifying advance of the climate crisis.

She said: “When I’d just done my 6.15am weather forecast on the Tuesday morning, I said we are forecasting 41C and I sat and looked at my map after, I was talking to the guy who does my weather graphics for me, I actually teared up. I said, ‘I’ve forecasted it, it’s going to happen, it’s actually reality and it’s going to happen’. We could not believe it in the forecasting community. I was very emotional about it.”

But not all of her viewers took the hot temperatures so seriously, accusing her of “scaremongering” and complaining on social media when Tobin linked the heatwave to climate breakdown.

Some tweets accused her of sharing “weather propaganda” and said they switched off when seeing her on television. Some called for her to be jailed over her climate warnings and others called her “Dr Doom”.

“People say you should just tell us about the weather, you shouldn’t talk about climate change,” she said, adding: “People think that it’s someone else’s problem and they don’t want to hear it. People don’t like being told what to do.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e_iOSApp_Other

[Chip]

This drug-dealer-style denial of reality is similar to Wyoming's (and West Virginia's) approach to being major exporters of coal.


Long a Climate Straggler, Australia Advances a Major Bill to Cut Emissions

By Damien Cave
Aug. 4, 2022

CANBERRA, Australia — After years of being denounced as a laggard on climate change, Australia shifted course on Thursday, with the Lower House of Parliament passing a bill that commits the government to reducing carbon emissions by at least 43 percent from 2005 levels by 2030, and reaching net zero by 2050.

With critical support from the Australian Greens now in place, the new Labor government is expected to push the legislation through the Senate in a few weeks.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said it would put the country “on the right side of history.” The 43 percent pledge brings Australia closer to Canada, South Korea and Japan, while still falling short of commitments from the United States, the European Union and Britain.

“The impact of climate change is real. We need a response which is real,” Mr. Albanese told reporters on Thursday. “The government is offering that.”

In Parliament, the climate minister, Chris Bowen, said simply: “This is a good day for our country.”

But the commitment — which Mr. Albanese campaigned on as Labor challenged the long-governing conservative coalition in the federal election in May — is widely seen as long overdue, and just the start of a vital economic transition in a country that is the world’s third-largest fossil fuel exporter, after Saudi Arabia and Russia.

Amanda McKenzie, who runs the Climate Council, an association of scientists and community leaders who have called for years for Australia to do more on climate change, called the climate change bill a “springboard” that will require the government to hold itself accountable while creating a framework for investment in renewable energy.

Richie Merzian, the climate and energy program director at the Australia Institute, a nonpartisan think tank, described the bill as “a huge leap forward,” while pointing out that there was still a long road ahead.

The government has refused to accept proposals for Australia to reject any new coal and gas projects — a major point of contention among a series of independent members of Parliament who won seats in mostly conservative districts on pledges to attack climate change aggressively.

Mr. Albanese and his Labor government also rejected a separate Greens amendment to reduce emissions by 75 percent by 2030.
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The Greens leader, Adam Bandt, has said repeatedly that the government’s lower target would lead to destroyed crops, devastating natural disasters and the demise of the Great Barrier Reef, which will continue to struggle under current warming trends, according to a report released on Thursday by Australian marine scientists.

They found that parts of the reef had begun to recover from a series of devastating bleaching events in recent years, but predicted that the world-renowned ecosystem would face frequent and longer-lasting heat waves unless there was “immediate global action on climate change.”

“That is the science,” Mr. Bandt said. “We’re not doing this to try to stop pollution a little bit. We are doing this to try to stop climate change becoming a runaway chain reaction.”

He described his support for the climate bill as a first step toward pushing Australia to do more, and many climate experts argue that the country can meet its international commitments only if it stops approving new coal and gas projects and eventually closes those that already exist.

“They need to address Albanese’s dissembling narrative that our coal and gas is somehow greener than others, and their drug dealer’s defense that if we don’t sell it, then others will,” said Robyn Eckersley, an expert on the politics of climate change at the University of Melbourne. “This is pernicious and a direct evasion of Australia’s responsibilities.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/04/w...e=articleShare

[sharmon202]

England's melting. France is on fire. Australia is either on fire or flooded. Millions are displaced by Bangladesh floods. New Mexico had huge wildfires in early spring. Alaska wildfires have burn 3 million acres so far this year. Glen Canyon and Lake Mead reservoirs, on the Colorado River, have sunk close to a level at which dams can no longer generate hydropower.

And you think this is a chickenshit political tussle?

Are these things unusual, rare? You think building cities, over time, in deserts & below sea level are a good idea and bad things might happen for only those causes? Think these affect the planet?

Little forest management in CA and fires, hmmm, makes me wonder.

Floods, drought, are a natural cycle. I live in KS. We are having a very hot summer, just like we had in 2011. Yes, it gets hot in summer here but should we be yelling the sky is falling, the sky is falling? No.

Now W coast growing population over the years and no forward critical thinking of future consequences of increasing people, decreasing water as a consequence is an issue. This year salination was suggested to the Gov., he said no. If increasing desalination sites had been done previously this entire debacle would not exist.

The condition of the planet environment, in some places, may be less than stellar but because of human laziness, grabs for political & corporate power and money, lack of forward thinking, critical thinking, and as my dad used to say, people not giving a crap. .

And you think this is a chickenshit political tussle? [U]YES
[/U]
You think this is chicken shit reasoning?

Nice talk, thx

[sharmon202]

The US military carbon footprint is small. Most of our emergency reserve oil has been sold to other countries, China for example. Politicians running the US military think EV military vehicles are appropriate and ok for war. (I include Milley in this, as a politician, not as a how to win a war expert).
Yes, I agree your statement does sound make us look silly, our global priorities seem wrong.

[Chip]

The US military carbon footprint is small.

Are you kidding?

The U.S. Department of Defense is the U.S. government's largest consumer of energy, consuming somewhere between 77 and 87 percent of all U.S. government energy consumption; in 2017, the DoD was responsible for 80 percent of total federal government energy consumption, sixteen times more than the total energy consumption of the next closest federal agency; the United States Postal Service. In addition, the DoD is the world's largest single institutional consumer of petroleum, consuming more fossil fuels than some nations.

Very detailed report here:

https://www.oyetimes.com/views/op-ed...rbon-footprint

[kazoolaw]

On a simplistic note, I don't think you put $7 billion of military hardware in Afghanistan with a small carbon footprint. You could also review the number of super pollution sites on past and present military bases.

[Chuck Naill]

The “burn pits” are proof enough.