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Thread: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

  1. #41
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Many get their news from YouTube. All you have to do is search on a video that says what you want to believe and shazam, there it is!!

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    Lloyd (August 17th, 2022)

  3. #42
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Many get their news from YouTube. All you have to do is search on a video that says what you want to believe and shazam, there it is!!
    Kind of like op-eds at the New York Times? Read Brooks and Heather Cox Richardson, or maybe some David French on occassion; and we know what you believe. Your opinion is someone else's opinion explained to you.

    Kind of sad, really.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    I wouldn't expect you to be able to decern the difference between cited sources, investigative reporting with a video you found rummaging YT.

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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    For equal time, Steve Bannon says those responsible for the raid will be incarcerated. I’m trying to find a YT video. How’s that @dneal?

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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    What about what George Conway thinks? Wasn’t his spouse affiliated with the former?

    He says that the raid is the shortest route to Trump in an orange jump suit!!! How disrespectful…..😂

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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    And poor, old Rudy. Perhaps he has a YT video @dneal can share

  8. #47
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    For equal time, Steve Bannon says those responsible for the raid will be incarcerated. I’m trying to find a YT video. How’s that @dneal?
    I haven't listened to Bannon since Frontline interviewed him about 2016. I wanted to understand his big picture view. I do, and there's nothing worth listening to after that. Just rhetoric. But - I know what he said. You only know what somebody said he said.

    You guys should get some hats so everyone can tell everybody apart. Red hats, pussy hats and pride hats are spoken for. What about the never trumpers? Are there lincoln project hats or something? Is Hillary's "but her emails" hat the blue maga equivalent?

    You guys and all these silly narratives and tribes.

    Hats would help.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  9. #48
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    For equal time, Steve Bannon says those responsible for the raid will be incarcerated. I’m trying to find a YT video. How’s that @dneal?
    I haven't listened to Bannon since Frontline interviewed him about 2016. I wanted to understand his big picture view. I do, and there's nothing worth listening to after that. Just rhetoric. But - I know what he said. You only know what somebody said he said.

    You guys should get some hats so everyone can tell everybody apart. Red hats, pussy hats and pride hats are spoken for. What about the never trumpers? Are there lincoln project hats or something? Is Hillary's "but her emails" hat the blue maga equivalent?

    You guys and all these silly narratives and tribes.

    Hats would help.
    I think we're all, yourself included, grown quote predictable to each other. I think one's goal should be to be proud of whatever you believe in, as well as to be open to listen respectfully to the others' perspectives.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  10. #49
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    It evident who @dneal listens to.

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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    We should all want to live in what is true regardless of whether we have all the information or not.

  12. #51
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    You guys should get some hats so everyone can tell everybody apart. Hats would help.
    I'm not here to help.


  13. #52
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Oops. Guess I startled you. You forgot your hat. . .


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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post

    You guys and all these silly narratives and tribes.
    And you were the one asking for evidence of your superior attitude.

  15. #54
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    You guys should get some hats so everyone can tell everybody apart. Hats would help.
    I'm not here to help.

    Mission accomplished.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  16. #55
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    It evident who @dneal listens to.
    You couldn't name them if you tried.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  17. #56
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    It evident who @dneal listens to.
    You couldn't name them if you tried.
    Beelzebub?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  18. #57
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    It evident who @dneal listens to.
    You couldn't name them if you tried.
    Beelzebub?

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    May as well be.

    Curiously, Chuck's still religious by nature. He has his orthodoxy and does not suffer it to be questioned. Easier to just declare "heretic", and know the truth.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  19. #58
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Running on empty again I see @dneal.

    It needs to be said that the US will not be better off or enjoy living in a nation ruled by Donald Trump. Sure, some minority will when they become new oligarch's, but the majority will not. We should appreciate being able to communicate while we still can.

    Those of you continuing to support the former president should think about what you are really supporting, but I am not holding my breath.

    Cheney is an attractive choice. I also like Adam Kitzinger, John Kasich, and a few others who might be a public servant operating from a rule of law.

    And, anyone that disagrees can comment.

    "August 17, 2022
    Heather Cox Richardson
    8 hr ago
    “Last night, my father killed another political dynasty, and that’s the Cheneys. He first killed the Bushes, then he killed the Clintons. Last night he killed the Cheneys.” So Eric Trump, former president Donald Trump’s son, interpreted the primary loss by Representative Liz Cheney (R-WY) last night.

    He is not wrong that the Republican Party has now been captured by extremists who reject the principles associated with that party. Trump’s statement reflects the reality that today’s MAGA crowd rejects the ideology of Reagan’s Republican Party, which was based in the idea—if not the actual execution—that the government must not interfere with markets. Far from trying to free up markets, Trump and those like him, including Florida governor Ron DeSantis, have used the government to punish businesses that don’t support their political policies and to reward those that do.

    Using the government to reward friends and punish enemies is the province of authoritarians like Russia’s Vladimir Putin and Hungary’s Viktor Orbán, who spoke earlier this month in Texas at the Conservative Political Action Conference. MAGAs’ support for such tactics fits, as they have rejected the fundamental principles of American democracy.

    The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution established that Americans have a right to consent to the government under which we live and that we are equal before the law. But today’s MAGA movement is based on the Big Lie that former president Trump won the 2020 election, and its adherents are currently engaged in the attempt to make sure that they can rig elections going forward, establishing a one-party state whose leaders can do as they wish.

    And at least part of what they appear to want is the establishment of a state religion that overrides the rights of LGBTQ Americans and takes away women’s rights. Indeed, their vision looks much like that of Orbán, who maintains that secular democracy must be replaced by what he calls “Christian democracy,” or “illiberal democracy.”

    While Eric Trump might see this as a triumph, others do not. Edward Luce of the Financial Times observed today: “I’ve covered extremism and violent ideologies around the world over my career. Have never come across a political force more nihilistic, dangerous & contemptible than today’s Republicans. Nothing close.”

    Shocking though that observation was, it was nothing compared to what came next. General Michael Hayden, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency under presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, retweeted Luce and commented: “I agree. And I was the CIA Director[.]”

    That this movement has dangerous designs on our government got more confirmation today when Jordan Libowitz and Lauren White of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) reported that the Secret Service had notice of a specific threat against House Speaker Nancy Pelosi days before the January 6 attack on the Capitol but didn’t tell the Capitol Police until 5:55 on the afternoon of that day, after the attack had happened.

    On December 31 a Parler user posted, “January 6 starts #1776 all over again…Fight for EVERYTHING,” and included Pelosi in a list of “enemies.” Later, the account was more specific about the attack. On the evening of January 6, the Secret Service sent the information along to the Capitol Police with a note: “Good afternoon, The US Secret Service is passing notification to the US Capitol Police regarding discovery of a social media threat directed toward Speaker Nancy Pelosi.”

    The Secret Service is under scrutiny because its agents’ texts from the period around the attack were erased from their phones, the phones of Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf and Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli were wiped, and the Trump-appointed inspector general for the Department of Homeland Security, Joseph Cuffari, neglected to tell Congress of the destruction of evidence for more than a year and has refused to make his staff available to testify about the matter.

    But it is not clear that the MAGA attempt to take over the government will stay behind Trump. Today, conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, who has recently been in the news for his defamation of the parents of a victim of the Sandy Hook shooting, announced on his show that he is switching his support to DeSantis. He was a staunch enough Trump supporter that he spoke at the January 5, 2021, rally in Washington, D.C., to fire up the crowd for the next day.

    Almost on cue, Trump began to float the idea that he would release the surveillance tape of FBI agents recovering the stolen government documents from his Mar-a-Lago property in what seems to be an attempt to reclaim his base. The argument for releasing the tape is that his supporters will resent the federal officers milling around Trump’s property, feeding the idea he is a victim of political persecution. Other advisors warn that actually seeing just how many boxes of documents, including top secret documents, were recovered, will backfire.

    “It’s one thing to read a bunch of numbers on an inventory list, it’s another to see law enforcement agents actually carrying a dozen-plus boxes out of President Trump’s home knowing they probably contain sensitive documents. I don’t see how that helps him,” a person close to Trump told Gabby Orr, Sara Murray, Kaitlan Collins and Katelyn Polantz of CNN. It would fit the usual Trump pattern for him simply to say he is going to release it to generate stories that keep him in the news.

    Trump’s supporters’ willingness to find another candidate is likely, in part, a reflection of the legal trouble mounting for the former president.

    Today, Trump campaign lawyer Rudy Giuliani testified for six hours before a grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia, that is investigating Trump’s effort to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in Georgia. Giuliani alleged vote rigging in Georgia even after his theories had been proven fake.

    Prosecutors have told Giuliani he is a target of the investigation, meaning it is possible he will be indicted. Ken Frydman, Giuliani’s former press secretary, told CNN yesterday: “He knows he lied for his client, and he knows we all know…. I think, you know, at this point in his life, his goal is to die a free man.”

    Tomorrow the former chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, Allen Weisselberg, will plead guilty to 15 felonies associated with conspiring to avoid payroll taxes on $1.7 million over 15 years by taking pay in the form of school tuition for his grandchildren, a free apartment, a car, and so on. The deal with the Manhattan district attorney’s office lets him off with fines and a minimum of 100 days in jail, a very light sentence. In exchange, Weisselberg will testify against the Trump Organization in its upcoming October trial for related offenses, though not against Trump himself.

    This deal seriously weakens the Trump Organization’s legal position in the case but leaves Trump and his family untouched. If the case undercuts the Trump family’s business— its traditional financial base— family members might be hoping to cement a new financial base in the American political system."

    https://heathercoxrichardson.substac...m_source=email
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; August 18th, 2022 at 06:33 AM.

  20. #59
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Occasim's Razor.
    Oc·​cam's razor | \ ˈä-kəmz-
    less commonly Ockham's razor

    Definition: a scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities.

    William of Occam (also spelled "Ockham") didn't invent the rule associated with his name. Others had espoused the "keep it simple" concept before that 14th-century philosopher and theologian embraced it, but no one wielded the principle (also known as the "law of parsimony") as relentlessly as he did. He used it to counter what he considered the fuzzy logic of his theological contemporaries, and his applications of it inspired 19th-century Scottish philosopher Sir William Hamilton to link Occam with the idea of cutting away extraneous material, giving us the modern name for the principle.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...'s%20razor
    love this, thx. Congrats, few include sources in such threads.
    Sandy
    We don't know what we don't know

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    Chip (August 18th, 2022)

  22. #60
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    I enjoy these quick research projects which add to my fund of knowledge and (one hopes) augment the understanding of my fellow sufferers.

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