FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

[Lloyd]

The upshot is I don't like messing with people who are delusional, deeply invested in their own concocted reality, and aggressively argumentative.

Been there, done that. . .

Then, why do you come to this subforum?

I don't place you in that category. I do find your vagueness and lame jokes (why are city folk obsessed with the idea of screwing farm animals?) annoying, but think you're very bright and contribute something valuable.

The hissing matches are incidental. I post quite a few links and excerpts that I think ought to be read (and are probably ignored by those who might learn the most from them).

But, having experienced crazy, I'm well able to recognize it.

Did you ever read "The Goat or Who is Sylvia" by Edward Albee? As silly as the story line sounds, I found it an amazingly powerful look at what is/isn't moral (and many other things).



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[Chip]

That's a play. Have I read the script?

No.

[Lloyd]

That's a play. Have I read the script?

No.

Yes.. it's a play. I highly recommend reading it.

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[Chuck Naill]

Actually no one knows if Trump participated in Golden Showers in Russia. The question should be, would I be surprised if he had.

Chuck, you get interested in strange things.

I am thorough whether particularly interested or not. With all of the obvious ignorance often spouted here regarding Trump, it pays to go back and look at his life, as his brother's daughter did, in order to understand the person for which the US is having to endure today. Therefore, when Trump says he declassified the documents, we have probable cause to not believe. Although, as I responded to @dneal's attempt to support Trump yet against, had the documents truly been declassified, the boxes would no longer have the markings and there would be a paper trail from the National Archives.

[Chip]

Yes. it's a play. I highly recommend reading it.

I saw the 1966 film of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf with Taylor and Burton. While the clever title made it popular, I thought it was a nasty piece of work.

So I guess, admitting my limited knowledge, I'm not keen on Albee's view of human nature.

The only scripts I read these days are Shakespeare comedies. Love the wordplay and wit.

To nod at the original topic, I wonder what sort of play might be written about Donald, Melania, Ivanka, Jared, Rudy, and the rogue's gallery of hangers-on?

A vicious farce?

[Lloyd]

Not being keen on Albee's view shouldn't make you avoid it. You shouldn't only read what what supports your view if you want to grow.

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[TSherbs]

Lloyd, not all reading is for self-improvement. Sometimes we want challenge, sometimes we want to coast. Sometimes we want frisson, other times a long exhale. Albee is a bitter, caustic pill. Not all want or need his brand of medicine: it leaves some feeling all the more sick.

[TSherbs]

Yes. it's a play. I highly recommend reading it.

I saw the 1966 film of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf with Taylor and Burton. While the clever title made it popular, I thought it was a nasty piece of work.

So I guess, admitting my limited knowledge, I'm not keen on Albee's view of human nature.

The only scripts I read these days are Shakespeare comedies. Love the wordplay and wit.

To nod at the original topic, I wonder what sort of play might be written about Donald, Melania, Ivanka, Jared, Rudy, and the rogue's gallery of hangers-on?

A vicious farce?

Puts me in mind of Toole's Confederacy of Dunces.

Or Kosinsky's Being There.

Or Dr. Strangelove.

Or, in the case of the MAGA transformation of the GOP: Ionesco's The Rhinoceros.

Or Pirandello: Six Family Members in Search of a Soul

Or for a novel setting, perhaps the saga of the illustrious Snopes family in Faulkner's Yawknapatawpha county.

[TFarnon]

Actually, depending on the markings, that can make something classified, and highly classified at that. At the Top Secret plus level, even the additional designators are classified. Back in the days of the Army Security Agency, in the 1970s, it was considered high humor to take the classified stamps, tackle someone who was leaving the service or even just moving to another assignment in another location, and stamp the poor sod on every inch of exposed skin. So yeah, an otherwise blank piece of paper at a certain level of classification and additional designators would be highly classified.

No. I once took a picture of a shura between Afghan villagers and a general officer with an iPhone. It was transferred to my personal laptop and burned to a CD-R, which was put in a classified computer and used in a story-board. Long story short, the intel bubbas tried to tell me my phone and laptop had unauthorized classified documents, and would have to be seized and wiped - simply because an unclassified picture made it to a slide deck that was classified overall. I laughed at them.

Bureaucratic procedures within the executive do not limit the power of the executive, where all authorities for the execution of bureaucratic procedures are derived. It doesn't matter what the paper has printed on the header. If the president says it's no longer classified, it's no longer classified; markings be damned. Markings become a bureaucratic admin process for office of legal counsel and other bubbas.

Here is a link to a classified document from the Nixon era. It was declassified by the CIA and is hosted on their website. The document still has "secret" clearly marked, with only a thin line through the marking. Since we can still see it, it's still classified. Right?

Either the Intel bubbas need more training or the image wasn't properly marked as (U) in the document.

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Exactly. Open source is not classified. Working open sources into a briefing can qualify the briefing as a whole as classified, because it (should) involve analysis of the sources in question.

As for declassification, a strike-through should be (and is, IIRC) sufficient with proper documentation to render a document marked only as classified (e.g. SECRET or TOP SECRET) declassified. The Nixon document meets that standard. However, if the document was designated SECRET or TOP SECRET plus a codeword, the codeword in and of itself is classified. That's how a blank piece of paper can be classified merely because it has been stamped as such.

[Lloyd]

Lloyd, not all reading is for self-improvement. Sometimes we want challenge, sometimes we want to coast. Sometimes we want frisson, other times a long exhale. Albee is a bitter, caustic pill. Not all want or need his brand of medicine: it leaves some feeling all the more sick.

I totally agree. I wasn't suggesting that he only read difficult things. I was suggesting that he reads some difficult things, namely this play. Have you read this play, "The Goat"?

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[TSherbs]

Nope. Never heard of it, actually (that I can recall).

[Lloyd]

You can find it free on line. It's not very long. The subject matter can be disturbing if taken literally (this site has a summary and critical analysis- http://edwardalbeesociety.org/works/...who-is-sylvia/) to some, but I found the messages powerful, the writing very engaging, and the characters believable.

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[Chip]

Not being keen on Albee's view shouldn't make you avoid it. You shouldn't only read what what supports your view if you want to grow.

Shakespeare doesn't "support my view."

What a pompous twit you can be.

[Bold2013]

You can find it free on line. It's not very long. The subject matter can be disturbing if taken literally (this site has a summary and critical analysis-http://edwardalbeesociety.org/works/the-goat-or-who-is-sylvia/) to some, but I found the messages powerful, the writing very engaging, and the characters believable.

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I just read it. Painful but had a good ending.

[Lloyd]

You can find it free on line. It's not very long. The subject matter can be disturbing if taken literally (this site has a summary and critical analysis-http://edwardalbeesociety.org/works/the-goat-or-who-is-sylvia/) to some, but I found the messages powerful, the writing very engaging, and the characters believable.

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I just read it. Painful but had a good ending.

Thank you for taking the time, sir.

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[Lloyd]

What a pompous twit you can be.

It's one of my superpowers.

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[Bold2013]

You can find it free on line. It's not very long. The subject matter can be disturbing if taken literally (this site has a summary and critical analysis-http://edwardalbeesociety.org/works/the-goat-or-who-is-sylvia/) to some, but I found the messages powerful, the writing very engaging, and the characters believable.

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I just read it. Painful but had a good ending.

Thank you for taking the time, sir.

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I can see your point of suggesting it as a means to discuss morality from a different vantage.

[Lloyd]

You can find it free on line. It's not very long. The subject matter can be disturbing if taken literally (this site has a summary and critical analysis-http://edwardalbeesociety.org/works/the-goat-or-who-is-sylvia/) to some, but I found the messages powerful, the writing very engaging, and the characters believable.

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I just read it. Painful but had a good ending.

Thank you for taking the time, sir.

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I can see your point of suggesting it as a means to discuss morality from a different vantage.

Thank you. I have to admit that my stereotyping mind thought that you would be the last member of this subforum who would be willing to read this, especially with such an open mind. I underestimated your willingness to understand other's views and overestimated my lack of bias.

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[Chip]

Or, in the case of the MAGA transformation of the GOP: Ionesco's The Rhinoceros.

I've actually seen it onstage. Trés weird.

It is, perhaps, more relevant to the present political situation than The Goat. Can't imagine reading the script.

[Lloyd]

Nope. Never heard of it, actually (that I can recall).

I don't think you'd regret reading it.... it's not that long.

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