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Thread: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

  1. #341
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post

    Is this an example of what you want to post? Most impressive.....🙄
    Is there some use in anything else? Am I the only one who doesn't get to shitpost? I'm not clear on the rules you think exist. Its been well established the blue-anon loons aren't interested in following any.

    I pop in here, read childish nonsense and laugh at it. Sometimes it's so absurd I comment. If I talk to many of you like children (TSherbs uses "acting superior", which is a childish comment in and of itself...), it's because that's the substance of the comments. Don't blame me that otherwise intelligent, educated people with rich and diverse life experiences can't do more than post op-eds and reiterate them - let alone the other shenanigans that continue amongst you all when I don't interrupt with a belly laugh and shitpost.

    So step down off your pedestal and disabuse yourself of any notion that you can shame me with your weird virtue signal (well done doing it with your typical rhetorical question, by the way). I simply don't care.

    On a more personal note, you really should listen to Scott Adams. You're one of the few who can see blue hats and haven't fully donned one (yet).

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

  2. #342
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Mar-a-Lago is "sacred"? Maybe in the Church of Crass Materialism.
    I know, right?

    But I think he was referring to the tenor of the thread, which starts with:

    Along with the frenzied shrieks of the Trumpistas,...
    Chuck, is that first phrase of the OP crazy-talk "sacred and very serious"? 'Frenzied shrieks of Trumpistas...'?

    See Lloyd? More childish nonsense. Chip and Chuck. Blue-anons, basically. You asked, so how am I supposed to respond to this nonsense?
    Last edited by dneal; September 19th, 2022 at 06:32 PM.

    It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.
    - Thomas Sowell

  3. #343
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    So step down off your pedestal
    ...says the guy who three sentences before wrote this:
    I pop in here, read childish nonsense and laugh at it.
    You're a paragon of hypocrisy, dneal.

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    Lloyd (September 19th, 2022)

  5. #344
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Those bickering childishly may get something out of this quote-
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

    Mark Twain
    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    TSherbs (September 19th, 2022)

  7. #345
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Those bickering childishly may get something out of this quote-
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

    Mark Twain
    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Did you know that Samuel Clemens (Twain), Benjamin Franklin, and Walt Whitman all ran away from home to persue their destiny at the same age: 16. (I thought Frederick Douglass was 16 also, but I was wrong: he was 20. He tried to run away at 15, but was caught).

  8. #346
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Those bickering childishly may get something out of this quote-
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

    Mark Twain
    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    Did you know that Samuel Clemens (Twain), Benjamin Franklin, and Walt Whitman all ran away from home to persue their destiny at the same age: 16. (I thought Frederick Douglass was 16 also, but I was wrong: he was 20. He tried to run away at 15, but was caught).
    I should let my daughter know.... maybe it'll persuade her.



    😉 just kidding... she's 17 and won't be leaving anytime soon....

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    TSherbs (September 19th, 2022)

  10. #347
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Interestingly, another great American genius of the same time, Emily Dickinson, begins attending college in 1847 at the age of 16. Chafing at the religious fervor of the school (and perhaps homesick), she returns home after just 6 months. The rest is literary history.

    16: for the greatest of minds back in the day, this could be a watershed year. Nowadays, not so much so (that I am aware of).

    Emily Dickinson at 16 years old at Holyoke Seminary for Girls:

    Last edited by TSherbs; September 19th, 2022 at 08:25 PM.

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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    I know, a bit off topic.

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    Lloyd (September 19th, 2022)

  13. #349
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    There's a topic? Who knew...



    “When you plant lettuce, if it does not grow well, you
    don't blame the lettuce. You look for reasons it is not
    doing well. It may need fertilizer, or more water, or
    less sun. You never blame the lettuce. Yet if we have
    problems with our friends or family, we blame the other
    person. But if we know how to take care of them, they will
    grow well, like the lettuce. Blaming has no positive
    effect at all, nor does trying to persuade using reason
    and argument. That is my experience. No blame, no
    reasoning, no argument, just understanding. If you
    understand, and you show that you understand, you can
    love, and the situation will change”

    - Thich Nhat Hanh

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    TSherbs (September 19th, 2022)

  15. #350
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Some of us, being grounded in pure crap, obviously have no need of fertilizer.

    Water, who knows?

    But perhaps there's a lack of sunlight.

  16. #351
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    "Trump suffers setback as appeals panel rejects Cannon ruling
    The panel ruled that the judge erred when she prevented federal prosecutors from using the 100 documents."

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...aster-00058176

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  17. #352
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Not surprising. It's a pretty dumbass ruling, incoherent and inconsistent.

    A question: I've seen photos of empty file folders with various labels and markings (classified or whatever). Might those be used to identify what documents are missing?

  18. #353
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Not surprising. It's a pretty dumbass ruling, incoherent and inconsistent.

    A question: I've seen photos of empty file folders with various labels and markings (classified or whatever). Might those be used to identify what documents are missing?
    No. Typically, they're an extra safeguard against accidental viewing of the contents by someone without a Need to Know.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  19. #354
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Isn't there some official register of classified document descriptions, summaries, titles, etc.?

  20. #355
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Isn't there some official register of classified document descriptions, summaries, titles, etc.?
    Numbers and titles, authors, date of creation,... should be tracked.

    Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    TFarnon (September 24th, 2022)

  22. #356
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    There it is: "I think it, therefore it is."

    I love how so much of that kind of power is written into the constitution ... wait, I'm still looking .... Let's see, "Congress can wage war just by thinking it." Cool. Ok, another: "Senators can confirm ambassadors just by thinking it." Roger that.

    I don't know why our government spends so much time and money on procedures and paperwork and talk. It's time for telepathy! So much cheaper and more efficient!

    CNN: Top GOP senators reject Trump's declassification comments and call for proper storage of secret records.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/22/polit...rds/index.html

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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    "Hilary's emails" at Mar-a-Lago? WTF? Our country let this guy be our president? He's such a pathetic "leader" that I am embarrassed in front of the world.

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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    "Hilary's emails" at Mar-a-Lago? WTF? Our country let this guy be our president? He's such a pathetic "leader" that I am embarrassed in front of the world.
    Worse than that is saying he could declassify a document by "thinking". He claims he doesn't drink. I am thinking he should start.

  25. #359
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

    Dumb and Dumber (The Peril of Short-Term Thinking.) C & P of full article.


    ‘Giant Backfire’: Trump’s Demand for Special Master Is Looking Like a Mistake

    The former president failed to derail the criminal investigation into his hoarding of sensitive documents and is stuck paying for a costly process that threatens to undermine his public claims.

    By Charlie Savage
    Sept. 28, 2022

    WASHINGTON — Former President Donald J. Trump’s request that a judge intervene in the criminal investigation into his hoarding of government documents by appointing a special master increasingly looks like a significant blunder, legal experts say.

    “Maybe from Trump’s point of view, creating delay and chaos is always a plus, but this has the feel of a giant backfire,” said Peter M. Shane, a legal scholar in residence at New York University and a specialist in separation-of-powers law.

    Initially, Mr. Trump’s demand that an outside arbiter sift through the materials the F.B.I. seized from his Florida estate seemed to turn in his favor. His lawsuit was assigned to a judge he had appointed, Aileen M. Cannon of the Southern District of Florida, who surprised legal experts by granting his request. In naming a special master suggested by Mr. Trump’s lawyers, she effectively froze the Justice Department’s investigation and gave the arbiter a broad mandate. The judge, Raymond J. Dearie of Federal District Court for the Eastern District of New York, would filter the materials not just for attorney-client privilege, which is not unusual, but also for executive privilege, which is unprecedented.

    But Mr. Trump’s apparent triumph would prove short-lived. An appeals court ruling last week and a letter the Justice Department filed late Tuesday about subsequent complaints his legal team had filed under seal to Judge Dearie suggest that the upsides to obtaining a special master are eroding and the disadvantages swelling. James Trusty, a lawyer for Mr. Trump, did not respond to a request for comment. But late Wednesday, the Trump team refiled its complaints to Judge Dearie — a letter dated Sept. 25 — in unsealed form, bringing the tensions more clearly into view.

    The appeals court last week freed the Justice Department to resume using about 100 documents marked as classified in its investigation, while telegraphing that the court thought Judge Cannon likely had erred by appointing a special master. In blocking part of Judge Cannon’s order, the appeals court panel, including two Trump appointees, allowed investigators to again scrutinize the material that poses by far the gravest legal threat to Mr. Trump. Potential crimes include unlawful retention of national security secrets, obstruction and defying a subpoena demanding all sensitive records that remained in his possession.

    But the Justice Department acquiesced for now to the remainder of the special master process, meaning that an outside arbiter would still assess some 11,000 unclassified records and other items seized from Mr. Trump’s Florida compound, Mar-a-Lago. A second letter from Mr. Trusty on Wednesday said that amounts to nearly 200,000 pages of material. Since that review is no longer delaying or diverting the criminal inquiry, it is not clear what benefits remain for Mr. Trump.

    For one, a special master will cost a lot of money. Judge Cannon rejected Mr. Trump’s proposal that taxpayers should foot half the bill of the review, instead saying he would be solely responsible. That includes the full cost of a vendor who will scan all the materials, as well as support staff for Judge Dearie, like an assistant who bills $500 an hour. Mr. Trump will also have to pay his own lawyers’ fees as they filter thousands of pages of records and then litigate disputes about which ones can be withheld as privileged.

    And far from indulging Mr. Trump, as his lawyers likely hoped in suggesting his appointment, Judge Dearie appears to be organizing the document review in ways that threaten to swiftly puncture the former president’s defenses. For example, the judge has ordered Mr. Trump to submit by Friday a declaration or affidavit verifying the inventory or listing any items on it “that plaintiff asserts were not seized” in the search.

    But if Mr. Trump acknowledges that the F.B.I. took any documents marked as classified from his personal office and a storage room at Mar-a-Lago, as the inventory says, that would become evidence that could be used against him if he were later charged with defying a subpoena. Requiring Mr. Trump’s lawyers to verify or object to the inventory also effectively means making them either affirm in court or disavow a claim Mr. Trump has made in public: his accusation that the F.B.I. planted fake evidence. While it is not a crime to lie to Fox News viewers or on social media, there are consequences to lying to a court.

    Essentially, Judge Dearie is telling Mr. Trump’s legal team “to put up or shut up,” said Julie O’Sullivan, a Georgetown University professor of white-collar law.

    “They thought it was a win to win the first battle, but they didn’t think through what winning that battle would mean with any reputable judge who is appointed as special master,” Ms. Sullivan said. “They can’t anticipate that every judge will give them a complete pass despite the law. It was a political or a public relations strategy, not a legal one.”

    In its Sept. 25 letter to Judge Dearie, Mr. Trump’s legal team argued that Judge Cannon had not authorized the special master to seek a declaration verifying the inventory from Mr. Trump or his representatives. The lawyers also said they would need to see the documents marked as classified to provide any such certification.

    Another tension centers on Mr. Trump’s public insistence that he declassified everything he took to Mar-a-Lago, a claim for which no credible evidence has emerged. His lawyers have not repeated that claim in court. They have instead merely insinuated that he might have done so by emphasizing that a president has broad declassification powers without asserting that he actually used them on the files. At a hearing this month, Judge Dearie said that Mr. Trump’s legal team would need to submit evidence of any declassification — like a sworn declaration or affidavit — or he would conclude that they remained classified.

    “I guess my view of it is,” he said, “you can’t have your cake and eat it.”

    In exempting the documents marked as classified from the special master’s review, the appeals court also focused on the disconnect. There was “no evidence that any of these records were declassified,” the three-judge panel wrote, noting that Mr. Trump’s lawyers had “resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents.”

    Mr. Trump, through his lawyers, is chafing at other orders from the special master, their Sept. 25 letter shows.

    For example, Judge Dearie has said they must categorize each document Mr. Trump claims is subject to privilege. They are to say whether they mean attorney-client or executive privilege. And if they claim executive privilege, then they must also distinguish between records that are merely shielded from disclosure to people outside the executive branch and those the executive branch itself supposedly cannot review. They must also explain why each document qualifies for such status.

    Judge Dearie is effectively trying to force Mr. Trump’s lawyers to confront a weakness in their theory that executive privilege is relevant to the case. Many legal experts doubt a former president can invoke the privilege against the wishes of the current president, preventing the Justice Department from reviewing executive branch materials in a criminal investigation. But in their letter, Mr. Trump’s lawyers said Judge Dearie was going beyond what Judge Cannon had authorized him to demand of them, and said they “see no basis for segmenting” their executive privilege claims into the two different types he had identified.

    For its part, the Justice Department appeared to relish Mr. Trump’s growing discomfort.

    “Plaintiff brought this civil, equitable proceeding,” it wrote in its letter. “He bears the burden of proof. If he wants the special master to make recommendations as to whether he is entitled to the relief he seeks, plaintiff will need to participate in the process” that Judge Dearie laid out.


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