Desantis

[TSherbs]

A Republican look at DeSantis: the strengths and the worries

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/19/polit...024/index.html

[Chuck Naill]

I'm enjoying Mr. Biden's courage presently.

[TSherbs]

A word of caution about carrying the anti-woke message too far, too long: https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...fire-rcna74350

[Chuck Naill]

I find it unfortunate this message resonates with so many people. Has anyone you know complained that "woke" makes them feel bad for being white? I haven't.

From HCR today,
"I was not a great student in college. I liked learning, but not on someone else’s timetable. It was this story that woke me up and made me a scholar."

In the US it is possible to be knowledgeable. When someone has knowledge that others don't know about, living is like plowing fallow ground, but you don't stop plowing because it is hard. Just keep at it. I sure hope our libraries don't become politized.

[TSherbs]

... I sure hope our libraries don't become politized.

Aren't we already past this point?

[Chuck Naill]

Not that I am aware.

[TSherbs]

Not that I am aware.

Well, for example, the recent school board public meeting in a town near me blew up over "woke" teacher dress code policies and the "pornography" and 100 "obscene" books in the the school libraries. And that is just *one* of the local library political imbroglios. Take a look at how many town librararians have received death threats over things like drag show readings for kids or anti-racist reading groups (I went to one) or their refusal to cough up reading lists of patrons. Librarians are our heros of independent thinking and access to books, and they are under political and legislative attack in many places.

[TSherbs]

Or, say, this:

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — Saying Florida public schools are making sexually explicit books available to children, Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill Friday to give parents a say in what books schools can and can’t have in their libraries.

It will force all elementary schools to provide a searchable list of every book available in their libraries or used in instruction. School boards must let the public know when they plan to consider approving new instructional books and allow anyone to comment. Any objections to the material, by a parent or not, must be reported to the state.

“Unfortunately, we’ve seen some books in some of these libraries, I mean you’re talking about kids in middle school, some of the stuff that has ended up there is incredibly, incredibly disturbing stuff,” DeSantis said. “Parents understand when they see this. They understand how to blow the whistle on this.”

The bill also sets a 12-year term limit for school board members.

Democrats opposed the bill during the legislative session that ended earlier this month, saying that it amounts to censorship and compared it to book burning. But it aligns with DeSantis’ agenda to squash school district decisions he disagrees with.

[TSherbs]

And here is how book-selling and library bans have crossover:

[Chuck Naill]

Well, I’ve never checked out an obscene book primarily because that is not my interest.

I had in mind history books which would inform or awaken any American who wanted to know about racial disparities, slavery, political and judicial history, and a host of other topics that would not fit into obscene or pornography.

I can’t see the value of presenting men dressing up as females and performing, but some apparently enjoy. Those that do have been given a choice in the matter.

[Chuck Naill]

Perhaps AR-15 or gun owners should consider lecturing in kindergartens.

[TSherbs]

The books being called "obscene" aren't actually obscene, Chuck. That's just an ignorant smear in the politicization of library holdings.

And the wearing of dresses (by men or women), like the wearing of pants (by men or women), is not a matter of "value" that anyone in government (local or national) should have a say over.

[Chuck Naill]

The books being called "obscene" aren't actually obscene, Chuck. That's just an ignorant smear in the politicization of library holdings.

And the wearing of dresses (by men or women), like the wearing of pants (by men or women), is not a matter of "value" that anyone in government (local or national) should have a say over.

Okay, I am not familiar with which books you are referring. It sounds like you have some books in mind.

Drag isn't playing dress up. I was reminded of the Blake Edwards movie, Victor Victoria. That wasn't drag was it? When boys play girls in Shakespearean theater, is that drag? I am not sure I understand your point.

Anyway, the topic is public display and presentations to children. These are best left to parents discretion.

Adults can cause a child to be entangled which can cause them to stumble where clarity is not provided. As adults we are more able to decide for ourselves. Children depend on adults because they know they don't know everything. If a child asked me why men dress up like women and perform, and after hearing them talk about what they do and why, it seems the best answer is entertainment or "fun". I remember a child I knew being afraid of clowns and people dressed up as an animal. I never found out why and would not want to assume. It was enough to give me pause.

[TSherbs]

Anyway, the topic is public display and presentations to children. These are best left to parents discretion.

Of course. This is the way it was before politicians ( as in Tennessee and Florida) started making it the focus of culture war attacks. The anti-woke virus has now spread even to towns very near me, where people spout these unfounded accusations about books that they have never seen or read. Books get listed on "challenged" lists simply because a parent files a "challenge" review request. These challenge lists then become public before they are even ruled on, and the flames of culture war reactionary hysteria become fanned. And now people stand up at hearings and shout "100 obscene books are in our kids' schools" when they have no idea what the fuck they are talking about (and, not surprisingly, are WRONG about). I am only pointing these things out because you stated that you hoped that libraries would not become politicized. It's too late for that wish.

[TSherbs]

And I'll just add: books are not the problem in America. Kids read fewer and fewer books, and parents read fewer and fewer books. Books are no problem at all.

Ignorance and bigotry is the problem.

[Kgbenson]

[QUOTE=Chuck Naill;391478]

Anyway, the topic is public display and presentations to children. These are best left to parents discretion.

Then don't take your kid there. simple - doesn't mean it has to be banned for everyone.

KB

[Chuck Naill]

Anyway, the topic is public display and presentations to children. These are best left to parents discretion.

Of course. This is the way it was before politicians ( as in Tennessee and Florida) started making it the focus of culture war attacks. The anti-woke virus has now spread even to towns very near me, where people spout these unfounded accusations about books that they have never seen or read. Books get listed on "challenged" lists simply because a parent files a "challenge" review request. These challenge lists then become public before they are even ruled on, and the flames of culture war reactionary hysteria become fanned. And now people stand up at hearings and shout "100 obscene books are in our kids' schools" when they have no idea what the fuck they are talking about (and, not surprisingly, are WRONG about). I am only pointing these things out because you stated that you hoped that libraries would not become politicized. It's too late for that wish.

If true, this doesn't seem a good way to ban books. I am reminded of Potter Stewart's definition of pornography.

I admit that this has not been a situation for which I needed to pay much attention. I do know, from reading, there is sunlight between the LGBQ community and Drag Actors and especially people who are transitioning. The Wellsley College news was interesting to me since it was a trans-male seeking admission. The ruling came down to only admit people who were consistently presenting as female.

[Chuck Naill]

In Tennessee Drag Actors are not banned.

[TSherbs]

In Tennessee Drag Actors are not banned.

Starting July 1, it is banned from public property, by law:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/polit...20this%20year.

[TSherbs]

Anyway, the topic is public display and presentations to children. These are best left to parents discretion.

Then don't take your kid there. simple - doesn't mean it has to be banned for everyone.

KB

I'm correcting your quotations to reflect proper attribution.