Trump and the Constitution

[724Seney]

Would you mind pointing out to me where, exactly, in my comments where I am accusing you of attacking a member? I can't seem to find it and feel like there is something "deja vu" about this exchange.

The beginning and end of your post, you refer to Trump card and st the end you suggest that you are concerned about civil discourse in this exchange with me. I am 9n my phone and I can't see up the thread as I answer. But you can look again 8f you are still curious. I can't 8magine anything near uncivil that I have done here. Nor anything like playing a "card" to provoke responses.

I just as soon close the thread because I got my answer, so I'll probably let it go and stop looking.

In spite of all your "touchy-feely" comments about wanting to de-escalate the sub-forum and communicate in the Advent spirit I think you are doing your level best to pick a fight with me TSherbs.

Here's what I said:
"Note: This has been offered in the current requested spirit of the Advent and, hopefully, replies /rebuttals will be, likewise, offered in a civil non-offensive tone."

News flash, you are not the only one who might have replied / rebutted; among your group there are some people who have continued to have tried to pick fights with me.

TSherbs, I've tried to get on board with your recommendation / suggestion / request that we try to cease and desist. But you and the others are not making it easy. Don't tell me you want peace, love and happiness and then continue to lob your stink bombs at me. If you and the others want to keep fighting, it's fine with me. Or not. Your call.

nevemind

I am moving on

Loving your Advent spirit TSherbs.
What's that they say?? "Rules for thee but not for me?"

Have a nice night.

[Chuck Naill]

Don't make more of him than what he is.

I don't think that I am doing this.

So far, no one else here seems to be much bothered by his recent remarks. So, my initial query has been answered.

I think one thing you have misread.... and are likely now experiencing..... is that there are very few, if any, Trump supporters here. So, no "hot buttons" are being pushed by your comments and for that matter, no one much cares.

Speaking for my self, I am not a Trump supporter and very much hope he will not be the GOP candidate. I have said that repeatedly as has dneal. Again, speaking for myself, I do not know how to make that more clear. Playing the "Trumper" card is like playing a blank card as far as I am concerned.

What concerns me the most is, at the end of the day, given the current slew of Democratic hopefuls (led by the current, incumbant Demento-in-Chief) I will have no choice but to vote for Trump if he is the candidate. As I hope I have made clear, I do not like or support the man... but most of his policies were far better and more effective than anything the current, progressive leaning Administration has proffered. IMO, four more years of woke Democratic leadership will kill this Country. I understand that some here thing this would be a good thing but, once again speaking for myself, I do not.

Note: This has been offered in the current requested spirit of the Advent and, hopefully, replies /rebuttals will be, likewise, offered in a civil non-offensive tone.

You always have a choice. This comes with age and experience for most of us. You should consider reading "Thank You for your Servitude" because it speaks to those never Trumpers who wound up supporting. No way I want a vote for Trump on my conscience.

Agree, you always have a choice. And in the words (actually lyrics) of Geddy Lee & Rush in "Freewill,", "If you choose to not decide you still have made a choice."
You & I just need to agree that we disagree and go our separate ways on this matter. I feel the same...but polar opposite.....as you. No way I want a vote for Biden or any other of the current Democratic contenders on my conscience.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Hopefully you can agree to that........

Of course I agree that you are entitled to your opinion. Aren't we here to reason and explain our opinions? Since I have read several books by both journalists, historians, and one relative, a psychologist, my opinions are set against voting for DT.

I am not a fan of Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton, but I knew enough, that in my mind, they were the greater good or the less bad.

I posted an op-ed this morning on my Political Christian thread that discusses the arguments Christians are having over Donald Trump if interested.

[Chuck Naill]

Just read these closing words from an op-Ed.
“ How, in a matter of less than a decade, could this once-proud country have evolved to the point that there is a serious debate over choosing a presidential candidate who is a lifelong opportunist, a pathological and malignant narcissist, a sociopath, a serial liar, a philanderer, a tax cheat who does not pay his bills and a man who socializes with Holocaust deniers, who has pardoned his criminal allies, who encouraged a violent insurrection, who, behind a wall of bodyguards, is a coward and who, without remorse, continually undermines American democracy?”

[TSherbs]

We have to admit that Clinton getting oral sex from an intern in the oval office didn't help the slide into the morass. I did not think that he should have lost his job over that, but it was a close call. There have been multiple ethics violations by many politicians, some criminal, some not. Resignations, censures, all sorts of repercussions. On the Supreme Court, too. Sure, Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh denied the allegations, but you could tell who was telling the truth and who was not. Lee Atwater was one of the early GOP hitmen, who ended up repenting his mudslinging dirty politics. Campaigns have now gone fully into the mud, the Tea Party decided to disrupt even local politics, Rush Limbaugh corrupted the airwaves as did Alex Jones. And through in a generous helping of disgruntled whites looking for their racial and economic warrior and finding it in Trump (after the diminution of the manufacturing industries), we get the you-can-say-and-do-just-about-anything political reality as long as you have a chance to win.

[dneal]

@TSherbs - Let me show you what that critique sounds like:

We have to admit that Obama and Holder bent the law with their Fast and Furious scandal, if not breaking it outright. But we know Obama was a Manchurian candidate, with essentially no practical experience; with a political career funded by George Soros. His mentoring from various radicals, like Pastor Jerimiah Wright, manifested in his race-baiting which the country is still reeling from; and the communist propaganda he learned from terrorist William Ayers pushed his socialist agenda to the forefront. More simply put, he pushed the pendulum far to the left and worked to destroy lives of honest working-class Americans while he bribed ignorant blacks with promises of an "Obama phone".

I can go on, but do you think this is conducive to conversation? Just typing hyperbolic nonsense which is based off sprinklings of truth on top of speculation?

[TSherbs]

okay thanks

[dneal]

Dismiss if you like, but I'm serious. I can even crank up the vitriol if you like. Links to Fox and Glenn Beck "proving" things, etc...

Is this what you want the politics forum to be?

Maybe it wold be more obvious if it were pen topics. Montblanc and Pelikan are evil companies with a history of supporting Hitler and Nazis. Only an Aryan white-nationalist type would purchase one of their products.

Want to do something similar with Japan? How about english brands and colonialism? Parker is the preferred brand of repressive aristocratic anachronisms...

Call me crazy, but I don't think this is the way adults discuss things or have polite conversation.

[TSherbs]

Dismiss if you like, but I'm serious. I can even crank up the vitriol if you like.

I have no idea why you keep threatening to be nasty.

[dneal]

I'm not being nasty. I meant with examples, like "Fox". I have no idea why you keep dodging this discussion.

Is this what you want the politics forum to be? A place where people come spout partisan vitriol?

[dneal]

How about a never-ending stream of stuff like this? I don't even have to work at it. Just copy stuff from another forum's politics section:

This is what election fraud and corruption look like:

Georgia.jpeg

Higher courts better fix this.

[TSherbs]

Dodging what? The question was, how did we get to a place where Trump could be considered a legit candidate. I answered the question, sincerely. You answered it too, but I couldn't tell if yours was sincere. Was it?

[TSherbs]

I don't mind if you post that. It's a little odd if you are posting something that you don't actually value, but whatever.

[dneal]

Dodging what? The question was, how did we get to a place where Trump could be considered a legit candidate. I answered the question, sincerely. You answered it too, but I couldn't tell if yours was sincere. Was it?

Let me try again: Is this what you want the politics forum to be? A place where people come spout partisan vitriol?

[TSherbs]

That question isn't the topic.

But to end this cycle, I'll answer:

On the politics forum, political bias and strong opinions about political issues and leaders is acceptable. If by "vitriol" you mean attacks on forum members, then no, I am not in favor of that.

I've answered this question already, on other threads, repeatedly.

Back to the actual topic, please.

[TSherbs]

I started this thread about Trump and his Tweet referring to his feeling that some "Massive Fraud" warranted abrogation of election law and the relevant parts of the Constitution. He has since called the press reports "fake news," which is one of his wornout tropes. I certainly merely quoted his exact words. It's not "fake news" to quote someone's exact words, especially when they are an expresident and a likely frontrunner for office.

[dneal]

You know what I mean, but ok. Let the games begin.

[Chuck Naill]

I do believe any objective mind will be able to come to conclusion about Trump's words. I just don't think he is smart enough to think beyond the moment. It is like when we post here and decide to delete.

When you consider Trump's history to get attention like taking out a full-page newspaper ad against the Central Park Five or his wrangling over Obama's birth certificate. Or his wanting to refurbish the ice rink, or build a casino in Atlantic Beach.

I am considering Biden's words yesterday,

“Well, good morning, folks. And it is a good morning,” President Joe Biden said in remarks today at the White House. “Moments ago, standing together with her wife, Cherelle, in the Oval Office, I spoke with Brittney Griner. She’s safe. She’s on a plane. She’s on her way home.”

If Trump had orchestrated the swap, self aggrandizement would have been the topic.

However, he did say this.
"Former president Trump, however, played along, complaining bitterly about “a ‘stupid’ and unpatriotic embarrassment for the USA!!!” that had secured the release of “a basketball player who openly hates our Country” instead of “former Marine Paul Whelan,” who “would have been let out for the asking.” Other MAGA Republicans followed suit.

[TSherbs]

I do believe any objective mind will be able to come to conclusion about Trump's words. I just don't think he is smart enough to think beyond the moment. It is like when we post here and decide to delete.

When you consider Trump's history to get attention like taking out a full-page newspaper ad against the Central Park Five or his wrangling over Obama's birth certificate. Or his wanting to refurbish the ice rink, or build a casino in Atlantic Beach.

Yes, getting press attention is one of his motivations. And criticizing Biden for this prisoner swap is to be expected, from several angles. Nearly all swaps are a tough call and political opportunities for quick hits on the opposition party leader. Goes with the territory of tough decisions to make. I am glad that I don't have to make that kind of decision.

[Chuck Naill]

I do believe any objective mind will be able to come to conclusion about Trump's words. I just don't think he is smart enough to think beyond the moment. It is like when we post here and decide to delete.

When you consider Trump's history to get attention like taking out a full-page newspaper ad against the Central Park Five or his wrangling over Obama's birth certificate. Or his wanting to refurbish the ice rink, or build a casino in Atlantic Beach.

Yes, getting press attention is one of his motivations. And criticizing Biden for this prisoner swap is to be expected, from several angles. Nearly all swaps are a tough call and political opportunities for quick hits on the opposition party leader. Goes with the territory of tough decisions to make. I am glad that I don't have to make that kind of decision.

Whether it is a hard call or not, Americans care about their fellow Americans and appreciate those they choose to lead be empathetic. If that were Ivanka in that Russian penal farm, I believe Biden would have done the same to get her back. And, if he did, it wouldn't be a quid pro quo. I think most American hate transactional politics.

At my age, I see BG as a kid who did something stupid in a place where people are not respected or where rule of law is not present. I am glad for her and her family. This should be a lesson to others to stay the hell out of these places if they have a call in the matter.

The Whalen and Griner families didn't play into the Putin game. That took courage.

[dneal]

The Biden administration traded an international arms dealer, known as “The Merchant of Death”, for a dope smoking basketball player.

“Tough call”. Pffff…..