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Thread: About all that institutional racism

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    Nope, liberal democracy says that everyone has availability to the same resources to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is what the US is founded on. There was a time when the document was written where only a minority of white men with land had these resources. Over time other peoples and women gained their access to these resources. To adopt liberal democracy for yourself means you are not a racist. When you adopt the idea that some are more deserving than others, racism and other restrictions are not far away.

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    I think I have posted this before, but not until 5 years ago, I thought the battle at the Alamo was about Texas independence from Mexico. Mexico had outlawed slavery in 1829. Slave owners wanted more land and sought to establish Texas as a slave state. Texas independence allowed slavery to extend into those lands. Some Texans would fight you over saying what actually occurred.

    Many Southern children were taught the CW was fought over "states rights". What was not taught was those states wanted the right to be a slave state. Some call it the War of Southern Aggression and would fight you over that myth.

    The statues served of a physical depiction of those myths. Their oversized representations of traitors made these men look like hero's rather than people who were willing to destroy democracy in order to enjoy the fruits of free labor from millions of Africans.

    If anyone is thinking today history is being rewritten, they simply choose to think so. We must guard ourselves against believing what is false.
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; December 13th, 2022 at 08:12 AM.

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    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    whataboutthisism, and the reason, it has nothing to do with your OP.

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    I have a new acquaintance, a Palestinian from Israel. We have struck up a relationship. Our relationship includes discussions about Ismael and Issaac. All good. I am sure he's more uncomfortable with me than I with him.

    As always, Candy sends her best.

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    Read about East Saint Louis riots.

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    The more I dig around, the more I'm concluding there is institutional racism. The problem is that the institution is the Democrat party.

    Senate Democrats Voted to Permit Systemic Racism in Higher Education

    By voting no on this amendment, Senate Democrats effectively voted in favor of Asian-American students remaining fair game for institutional racism. Why do these Democrats apparently believe that Asian-Americans do not deserve equal protection under the 14th Amendment?

    There are two key reasons.

    The first is simple political self-interest. The Democratic Party is largely an alliance of highly educated, affluent whites and disadvantaged "BIPOC" (black, indigenous and people of color) individuals. A rising Asian-American middle class threatens the college admissions prospects of both groups. As Aaron Sibarium has calculated, if Yale used exclusively meritocratic criteria, Asian students would outnumber whites by about 2:1 and blacks by about 30:1.

    But there is a second, deeper reason beyond servicing their key constituencies. Much of the Democratic Party is currently enthralled by the ideology of critical race theory, which contends that all racial disparities are the product of racism and/or "white supremacism." The success of Asian-Americans is utterly fatal to this facile worldview.

    -snip-

    Conservatives attribute the success of many Asian-Americans to their strong family culture, their hard work, their respect for academic excellence and their discipline. Critical race theorists don't exactly deny these factors. Rather, they re-label them derogatorily as "whiteness" and accuse Asian-Americans of buying into what they call "white supremacy culture."

    For example, when Asian-American parents objected to the destruction of admissions standards at Virginia's elite Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, Virginia Education Secretary Atif Qarni accused them of using "white supremacist" rhetoric. Alison Collins, former vice president of the San Diego School Board, which recently voted to dismantle admissions standards at its elite Lowell High School, once expressed her frustration with the insufficient wokeness of Asian-Americans by saying "being a house n****r is still being a n****r."

    Such epithets are all but inevitable under the applied ideology of critical race theory, which the Chinese American Citizens Alliance of Greater New York recently condemned as a "hateful, divisive, manipulative fraud," and the "real hate crime against Asians."

    But while calling Asian-American parents "white supremacists" and "n****rs" at the same time might not appear to be a savvy long-term political move, it's quite possible that Democratic Party strategists have calculated that they can cater to their key constituencies without alienating the group they are harming and deriding.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  8. #48
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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    For those that are interested in history, this is an interesting read.

    The Institutional Racism of the Democratic Party

    It's the most persistent hate group in human history.

    The Democrats lost the 1860s battle against the United States. Then they retrenched and introduced new strategies. For decades, they deployed the Ku Klux Klan to harass, murder, terrorize and fearmonger blacks out of voting Republican. Today they pursue the same goals, but have traded their white hoods for newspaper columns, microphones, and TV camerasand theyve rebranded themselves advocates for Black America.

    In 1964, when signing the welfare programs of the Great Society into law, President Lyndon B. Johnson said, Ill have those n*****s voting Democratic for the next two hundred years. Black scholars Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele, as well as Harvard Professor Paul Peterson, credit the Great Society with actively discouraging marriage and surrogating the federal government for black fathers, driving black birth illegitimacy rates from 20% in 1960 to 77% by 2017. (Between 1890 and 1950, black women were married at a higher rate than white women. From 1930-1950, the rates were equal.)

    Fatherlessness has doubled high school dropout rates. In 1998, the Department of Justice published a report showing that 63% of youth suicides and 70% of youths in state institutions are from fatherless homes. This is not mere right-wing revisionism. I refer here to studies by the DOJ, New York Times, and NPR.

    A year after the Great Society, President Johnson signed the Hart-Cellar Act, opening the floodgates of mass immigration into the low-skilled job market. Since then, adult black men have participated in the labor force at lower and lower rates, from 79% in 1973 to 68% in 2018. No less a leftist than Bernie Sanders has been saying this for decades: There is no more defining issue in our nation today than stopping illegal immigration, he said when George Bush was pushing his temporary worker program. When you have 36% of Hispanic kids in this country who cant find jobs, and you bring a lot of unskilled workers into this country, what do you think happens to that 36% of kids who are today unemployed? Fifty-one percent of African-American kids? Somehow Sanders dodged the white nationalist charge.

    For years, Democrat organizers such as political consultant Robert Creamer have sought to sandbag the economy into collapse using an overwhelmed entitlement state. They mau-maued banks into setting black subprime mortgage borrowers up for certain mass foreclosure in a long-term blackmail scheme against the free market. They exploited poverty for political expediency and pioneered the race war profiteering industry.

    Democrats have also injected the German Marxist Frankfurt Schools critical theory into every level of academia to splinter American culture into factionalized identity groups. In 1967, the Communist Partys official newspaper, The Daily Worker, announced a new Communist Party line regarding Negroes and rioting. The previous position of supporting full integration and rejecting violence had alienated potentially useful allies among the most violent racialist groups. Thus if the Communist Party were to capitalize on the riots, it had no choice but to reverse its official position on the question of civil rights.

    Infiltrating still deeper into black American life, the Democrats went for the churches, converting them to the social justice gospel and the Frankfurtian doctrine of critical race theory. Jim Jones, a white Democrat organizer (though he claimed to be part Cherokee) transplanted his mostly black congregation to a socialist utopia-turned-gulag in Guyana with the support of Democratic California Governor Jerry Brown. Under the pretense of rescuing them from Ameri-KKK-a, Jones ended up killing every one of his congregants in the single greatest mass murder of black Americans in U.S. history. (CNNs one-hour documentary on Jim Jones and the Jonestown Massacre of 1978 conveniently forgot to mention the movements dogmatic commitment to socialism.)

    The New Jim Crow

    In the decades that followed, Democrats presided municipally over the most impoverished urban populations, assuring plummeting literacy rates and a deteriorating status quo. They promoted minimum wage laws and priced blacks out of the workforce. The liberal Economic Policy Institute found that for every 10% increase in the minimum wage, minority unemployment increases by 3.9%. And now theyve stepped it up to The Fight for 15!

    To sow further disunity, Democrats push fake hate-crime stories (Kentucky State Assistant Professor Wilfred Reilly found that over two thirds of reported hate crimes are hoaxes) and media circuses over police murders of unarmed blacks. They spread cherry-picked or fallacious statistics about police shootings (the National Academy of Sciences found no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police).

    On the basis of these lies, Democrats encourage masked domestic terrorist mobs to protest in black neighborhoods, reducing them to rubble in the process. They inexplicably turned what could have been a rare opportunity for national unity in the tragic death of George Floydof which not a single American disputed the injusticeinto a deadly, apocalyptic showdown, demanding justice for George Floyd. (The officer was arrested and charged with murder. Justice prevails. The riots continue notwithstanding.)

    The Democratic data firm Civis Analytics has shown that black voters are just as likely as white ones to support hiring more police rather than less. The Minority Rights and Relations survey by Gallup reported that [m]ore blacks (38 percent) say they want a greater police presence in their local communities than do whites (18 percent) or Americans more broadly (23 percent).

    It stands to reason, then, that calls to defund the police will be most devastating for underprivileged areaswhich, of course, are disproportionately black. And yet, inexplicably, Democrats blame President Trump and racist conservatives for high-profile incidents of alleged brutalityboth real and falsifieddespite the fact that every single one of them has taken place in blue cities with police departments staffed by Democrat-appointed police commissioners.

    To further break the black American spirit, Democrats invoke racial disparities in prison populations and the mandatory minimum sentences for drug abusein particular, they cite the different sentences for using crack and powdered cocaine. Conveniently, they leave out key detailssome of which are available in Bureau of Justice Statisticsincluding that: a) Meth distribution (for which white inmates represent 53% of sentences versus blacks 2%) carries the same five-year minimum as crack; b) Crack convictions account for only 0.8% of black inmates; c) Drug sentences generally account for only 0.5% of black inmates; d) The Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986, in which many of these sentences were delineated, was overwhelmingly supported by the Congressional Black Caucus; e) Black Representative Charlie Rangel (D-NY) spearheaded the federal response to the crack epidemic in the first place; and f) Racial disparities in the prison population have decreased 25% since 2000, with white inmates up 4% and blacks down 22%.

    Third-Wave Racism

    On the strength of all these fallacies, the Democrat Party has created a money-laundering front in the form of Black Lives Matter (a name straight out of the Patriot Act playbookwhat, are you not patriotic?) whose online mission statement is disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structureagain, the very catalyst of black underprivilege according to Sowell, Steele and countless other black scholars.

    Desperate for more bogeymen to justify their demagoguery, they roll out red carpets for actual white nationalists like Richard Spencer (whom roughly zero Trump supporters had ever heard of, let alone embraced, before CNN, NPR, The Atlantic, and so forth turned him into Americas Next Top Nazi) and his retinue of 20 or so basement-dwelling, Hitler-Heiling nobodies. They fabricated allegations of the presidents refusals to condemn another prior nobody-turned-CNN-celeb, David Duke, when not only had Trump unmistakably disavowed Duke the first time the endorsement was brought to his attention (well before the Jake Tapper interview) but had done so on numerous occasions over the preceding decades.

    All this despite President Trumps having signed historic criminal justice reform into law; released over 1200 nonviolent offenders, 91% of them black, from prison; increased funding for historically black colleges and universities by 25% (more than any president ever) and waived an additional $322 million of their federal debt (compare President Obamas failing grades from leaders of the nations 100-plus historically black colleges and universities reported in Politico); urged Congress to expand school choice to inner-city districts; signed the Hispanic Prosperity Executive Order to promote public-private partnerships in Hispanic-American communities; created Opportunity Zones for 1.4 million minority households; and presided over record-low black and Hispanic unemployment rates and a 400% increase in black homeownership.

    Meanwhile, the Democrat Party nominee in 2016 was a sycophantic protege of KKK Grand Kleagle Robert Byrd (a decades-long serving senator). The current nominee, Joe Biden, a white male, stares black America in the eye and reminds them that they are the property of the Democrat Partythat their whole identity is conditioned on supporting him and as such, they aint black if theyre undecided on voting for him.

    The Democrat Party today is built on the most insidious and cowardly form of racial bullying. Its M.O. is to intimidate the black community into feeling endangered, ostracized, and unwanted in the nation that their ancestors helped build; a nation which fought a Civil War to free those in bondage; and which celebrates and encourages their contributions to arts, sciences, civics, business, and culture like no other nation in the world. Democrats shame black dissidents as Uncle Toms, race traitors, and minstrel shows in a desperate effort to keep them afraid and under control.

    Malcolm X said: The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. He was right. There is systemic racism in America: Democrats run that system, in partnership with their high-tech, crypto-Klan media apparatus. Their Stalinist show trials, cancel-culture guillotine purges, and cyber-lynch-mob-incitements have created a hyper-conformist, empty-eyed zombie mob whose neurolinguistically programmed reactions to Pavlovian mass media cues are triggered at the slightest provocation. One simply cannot profess to be anti-racist without acknowledging the donkey in the room, arguably the best-funded hate group, with the most extensive human resources and the most tirelessly reinventive pathology of racial animus, in human history.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  9. #49
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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    Candy suggests you do to the public library instead of searching on Democrats, liberal, and racism

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism


    Korematsu v. U.S.
    " About 10 weeks after the U.S. entered World War II, President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942 signed Executive Order 9066. The order authorized the Secretary of War and the armed forces to remove people of Japanese ancestry from what they designated as military areas and surrounding communities in the United States. These areas were legally off limits to Japanese aliens and Japanese-American citizens.

    The order set in motion the mass transportation and relocation of more than 120,000 Japanese people to sites the government called detention camps that were set up and occupied in about 14 weeks."

    Majority: Conviction affirmed. The Supreme Court ruled that the evacuation order violated by Korematsu was valid, and it was not necessary to address the constitutional racial discrimination issues in this case.

    In a strongly worded dissent, Justice Robert Jackson contended: "Korematsu ... has been convicted of an act not commonly thought a crime. It consists merely of being present in the state whereof he is a citizen, near the place where he was born, and where all his life he has lived." The nation's wartime security concerns, he contended, were not adequate to strip Korematsu and the other internees of their constitutionally protected civil rights.

    Justice Jackson called the exclusion order the legalization of racism that violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. He compared the exclusion order to the abhorrent and despicable treatment of minority groups by the dictatorial tyrannies which this nation is now pledged to destroy. He concluded that the exclusion order violated the Fourteenth Amendment by fall[ing] into the ugly abyss of racism.

    In 1983, a pro bono legal team with new evidence re-opened the 40-year-old case in a federal district court on the basis of government misconduct. They showed that the governments legal team had intentionally suppressed or destroyed evidence from government intelligence agencies reporting that Japanese Americans posed no military threat to the U.S. The official reports, including those from the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover, were not presented in court. On November 10, 1983, a federal judge overturned Korematsus conviction in the same San Francisco courthouse where he had been convicted as a young man "
    https://www.uscourts.gov/educational...korematsu-v-us (Webpage edited,Emphasis added)

    Dangerous Democrat use of an Executive Order, and suppression of evidence.

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    Were the Japanese ever forced to migrate or subjected to Jim Crow or used for unpaid labor?

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    They showed that the governments legal team had intentionally suppressed or destroyed evidence from government intelligence agencies reporting that Japanese Americans posed no military threat to the U.S. The official reports, including those from the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover, were not presented in court.
    Must have been a Dec 7 committee run by the same party that was trying to pack the courts...

    History repeats itself?
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    All Kaweko experts Id imagine.

  15. #54
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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    Compare the crowds. Rally for Herchel Walker:




    Rally for Raphael Warnock:




    Unapologetic Black Power in the South

    Charles M. Blow
    Dec. 11, 2022

    Im a strong advocate of Black reverse migration Black people returning to Southern states from cities in the North and West in order to concentrate political power.

    This reverse migration was already happening before my advocacy, and it continues. As the demographer William H. Frey wrote for the Brookings Institution in September, the reversal began as a trickle in the 1970s, increased in the 1990s and turned into a virtual evacuation from many Northern areas in subsequent decades.

    There are many reasons for this reversal, primarily economic, but I specifically propose adding the accrual of political power statewide political power to the mix. One of the ways that people often push back on what Im proposing is to worry aloud about the opposition and backlash to a rising Black population and power base in Southern states. Well, Georgia is providing a proving ground for this debate in real life.

    I heard so many people after the Georgia runoff in which Raphael Warnock defeated Herschel Walker who said some version of Yes, but it was still too close. It seemed to me that those comments and many others missed the bigger point: Something absolutely historic is happening in Georgia that portends a massive political realignment for several Southern states.

    Georgia voters proved this year that the historic election of a Black senator from a Southern state by a coalition led in many ways by Black people was not a fluke. And that coalition sent Warnock back to the Senate in the face of fierce opposition. Not only did the Georgia legislature and Gov. Brian Kemp do their best to suppress voters a tactic almost always designed to marginalize nonwhite voters but Republicans also turned out in droves to try to retain power that they see slipping from their grasp.

    Furthermore, in the general election, Black turnout was down. According to Nate Cohn, the Black share of the electorate fell to its lowest level since 2006. But then in the runoff, when the choice was narrowed and sharpened, the Warnock coalition bounced back, stronger and defiant.

    According to the Georgia Secretary of States Office, Black voters account for only 29 percent of registered active voters in the state. During early voting, Black voters outperformed. They went to the polls to prove a point. They voted to flex. According to a Pew Research Center report, the number of Black people registered to vote in Georgia increased 25 percent from 2016 to 2020, a far larger increase than for any other racial group.

    Yes, many, like me, were offended by the presence of Walker as the alternative and were voting as much to defy Walker as to affirm Warnock.

    But even there I think we have to step back, take a breath and soberly assess how historic his presence was. The power structure in Georgia was so shocked by what this Black-led coalition had done that they allowed Donald Trump to foist a thoroughly unqualified Black Republican on them, thinking that he would help them win back power. Georgia Republicans thought they could fracture the Black vote. They couldnt. It held strong and united.

    There is a great, nearly inexpressible exhilaration in this realization as a Black citizen and voter. Black people and other minorities werent simply being called on to tip the balance when white voters split down the middle. Every other Black senator in American history has been elected by a coalition led by white liberals. Warnock is the first elected by a coalition led by Black people.

    Black people were leading the charge in his election, and he was solid, bright and competent. This startling new reality of electoral politics demolished any lingering lies about inferior Black leadership or intemperate Black voters. Black voters want what any other voter should want: solid leaders who are responsive to them.

    Some may look at the defeat of Stacey Abrams in the governors race and see it as a sign of caution, that the Old South is alive and well. But I see it differently. Power will not be passively relinquished. Those with it will fight like hell to retain it. And in that power struggle, they will win some of the battles.

    Each election will depend on candidates and campaigns. The race between Kemp and Abrams is not a predictor of what is possible. Black voters in Georgia keep reminding themselves whats possible when they focus their attention and effort as they did in this runoff. That kind of engagement and the reward of winning is psychologically powerful. Once a people tastes power, state power, it seems to me that it will be hard to turn away from power. Having it begins to feel normal and expected.

    That is a reality that many in this country have feared for centuries. That is a reality that I now relish.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/o...e=articleShareHerschel Walker rally

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Compare the crowds. Rally for Herchel Walker:

    I see a lot of white people. I guess the GOP isn't nearly as racist as Democrats claim.

    Maybe Malcolm X was on to something with the white liberals.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    It just dawned on me that Pennsylvania Democrats went with the "inarticulate" white guy over the Turkish-American. Do Turks count as Asian? They are on that side of the Dardanelles. He must have lied on his application when he went to Harvard. They got a thing about Asians.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    To be stupid is a sad thing.

    To choose to be stupid is much worse.

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    To be stupid is a sad thing.

    To choose to be stupid is much worse.
    If youre aware of that, why do you choose it?
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    To repeat, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." Paul Simon.

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    Default Re: About all that institutional racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Compare the crowds. Rally for Herchel Walker:




    Rally for Raphael Warnock:




    Unapologetic Black Power in the South

    Charles M. Blow
    Dec. 11, 2022

    Im a strong advocate of Black reverse migration Black people returning to Southern states from cities in the North and West in order to concentrate political power.

    This reverse migration was already happening before my advocacy, and it continues. As the demographer William H. Frey wrote for the Brookings Institution in September, the reversal began as a trickle in the 1970s, increased in the 1990s and turned into a virtual evacuation from many Northern areas in subsequent decades.

    There are many reasons for this reversal, primarily economic, but I specifically propose adding the accrual of political power statewide political power to the mix. One of the ways that people often push back on what Im proposing is to worry aloud about the opposition and backlash to a rising Black population and power base in Southern states. Well, Georgia is providing a proving ground for this debate in real life.

    I heard so many people after the Georgia runoff in which Raphael Warnock defeated Herschel Walker who said some version of Yes, but it was still too close. It seemed to me that those comments and many others missed the bigger point: Something absolutely historic is happening in Georgia that portends a massive political realignment for several Southern states.

    Georgia voters proved this year that the historic election of a Black senator from a Southern state by a coalition led in many ways by Black people was not a fluke. And that coalition sent Warnock back to the Senate in the face of fierce opposition. Not only did the Georgia legislature and Gov. Brian Kemp do their best to suppress voters a tactic almost always designed to marginalize nonwhite voters but Republicans also turned out in droves to try to retain power that they see slipping from their grasp.

    Furthermore, in the general election, Black turnout was down. According to Nate Cohn, the Black share of the electorate fell to its lowest level since 2006. But then in the runoff, when the choice was narrowed and sharpened, the Warnock coalition bounced back, stronger and defiant.

    According to the Georgia Secretary of States Office, Black voters account for only 29 percent of registered active voters in the state. During early voting, Black voters outperformed. They went to the polls to prove a point. They voted to flex. According to a Pew Research Center report, the number of Black people registered to vote in Georgia increased 25 percent from 2016 to 2020, a far larger increase than for any other racial group.

    Yes, many, like me, were offended by the presence of Walker as the alternative and were voting as much to defy Walker as to affirm Warnock.

    But even there I think we have to step back, take a breath and soberly assess how historic his presence was. The power structure in Georgia was so shocked by what this Black-led coalition had done that they allowed Donald Trump to foist a thoroughly unqualified Black Republican on them, thinking that he would help them win back power. Georgia Republicans thought they could fracture the Black vote. They couldnt. It held strong and united.

    There is a great, nearly inexpressible exhilaration in this realization as a Black citizen and voter. Black people and other minorities werent simply being called on to tip the balance when white voters split down the middle. Every other Black senator in American history has been elected by a coalition led by white liberals. Warnock is the first elected by a coalition led by Black people.

    Black people were leading the charge in his election, and he was solid, bright and competent. This startling new reality of electoral politics demolished any lingering lies about inferior Black leadership or intemperate Black voters. Black voters want what any other voter should want: solid leaders who are responsive to them.

    Some may look at the defeat of Stacey Abrams in the governors race and see it as a sign of caution, that the Old South is alive and well. But I see it differently. Power will not be passively relinquished. Those with it will fight like hell to retain it. And in that power struggle, they will win some of the battles.

    Each election will depend on candidates and campaigns. The race between Kemp and Abrams is not a predictor of what is possible. Black voters in Georgia keep reminding themselves whats possible when they focus their attention and effort as they did in this runoff. That kind of engagement and the reward of winning is psychologically powerful. Once a people tastes power, state power, it seems to me that it will be hard to turn away from power. Having it begins to feel normal and expected.

    That is a reality that many in this country have feared for centuries. That is a reality that I now relish.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/o...e=articleShareHerschel Walker rally
    I am interested in seeing a more full demographic analysis of the voters and patterns in this Georgia run-off election. I've seen the election map (I don't mean that). I mean a look at who voted for whom....

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