That other place down…

[TSherbs]

Well, one involves chatting with other humans for a social aspect. Sometimes I ask a question because someone else who has spent 10 years gaining experience and doing the research might, in 30 seconds, help me with something I need assistance with quickly. Like having a mentor, kind of. Or a licensed penspecialist

What you describe is generally not what happens with the type of reddit post to which I am referring.

Like, "Where can I buy a Metro?"?

[Sailor Kenshin]

Well, one involves chatting with other humans for a social aspect. Sometimes I ask a question because someone else who has spent 10 years gaining experience and doing the research might, in 30 seconds, help me with something I need assistance with quickly. Like having a mentor, kind of. Or a licensed penspecialist

What you describe is generally not what happens with the type of reddit post to which I am referring.

Like, "Where can I buy a Metro?"?

Geo Metro? I'd avoid them. 😜

[welch]

It is running fine today.

[LizEF]

Like, "Where can I buy a Metro?"?

Not far off. But often things that are easily done by going to Goulet or JetPens and using their filters, or to any site that sells ink and using their filters, or to InkSwatch.com or Mountain Of Ink... Basically, "here are my criteria, go find what I want".

[Jon Szanto]

Sometimes you have to accept a tidal change. That is why I joined r/fountainpens seven years ago: to see what a crowd of pen people, decades and decades younger than me, are all about.

Whether you want to consider the move toward crowdsourcing, or a new spin on social interaction, there is no doubt that for many of them, just going into a 'room' with thousands of people and shouting "what's the answer to my question" is a preferred approach, rather than Googling or - ick! - going to some OG website to look up information. I think about all the great and significant posts on pens, repair, inks, etc on many sites, FPN a top contender, but others, too, and then I realize that the majority of the younger players would rather pull up a YouTube video. It doesn't matter that, for instance, many of the repair vids are bogus amateurs, and pens will be harmed, that is just the de facto data stream.

It doesn't have to make sense to me (or us) for it to be not just a trend but actually the way it is for many new pen enthusiasts. The days of the fora are slowly coming to a close.

[TSherbs]

Sometimes you have to accept a tidal change. ......The days of the fora are slowly coming to a close.

Like sands through the hourglass, so .....

[Ron Z]

It doesn't matter that, for instance, many of the repair vids are bogus amateurs, and pens will be harmed, that is just the de facto data stream.

My observation has been that the people who really know what they are doing don't have time to do videos, and/or know their weaknesses, so won't post a video. Some of the one's I've seen scare me.

Most of the remaining professional repair people have given up sharing information, if they ever did.

[724Seney]

Most of the remaining professional repair people have given up sharing information, if they ever did.

I think this is a very unfair characterization of a wonderful and very accomplished group of men & women. I am in regular contact with some of the most highly regarded and busiest repair professionals in the world. I am ever astounded by the time, respect and kindness they provide to me...... without ever asking for or expecting anything in return. True, these are private conversations and not posts on some public forum but some things are better addressed in a 1:1 manner.

[LizEF]

I've seen more than one post on reddit asking how one goes about learning to be a nib meister or repair person (from the text, these aren't people looking to fix just their own pens, these are people who want to do this as a profession). The only advice I can think of for them is to contact the nearest one and ask if they'll accept an apprentice. It's not like there's an actual school out there with a degree program... (In other words, I sure hope professional repair people are passing their knowledge on to *someone*.)

[Jon Szanto]

Most of the remaining professional repair people have given up sharing information, if they ever did.

I think this is a very unfair characterization of a wonderful and very accomplished group of men & women. I am in regular contact with some of the most highly regarded and busiest repair professionals in the world. I am ever astounded by the time, respect and kindness they provide to me...... without ever asking for or expecting anything in return. True, these are private conversations and not posts on some public forum but some things are better addressed in a 1:1 manner.

I think it is quite likely that Ron, a member of that "wonderful and very accomplished group" himself, was referring to the online sharing of information, not the personal connections and sharing as you stated. I won't speak for him, of course, but it might be that the two of you are addressing slightly different modes of sharing of this valuable information.

[Ron Z]

Most of the remaining professional repair people have given up sharing information, if they ever did.

I think this is a very unfair characterization of a wonderful and very accomplished group of men & women. I am in regular contact with some of the most highly regarded and busiest repair professionals in the world. I am ever astounded by the time, respect and kindness they provide to me...... without ever asking for or expecting anything in return. True, these are private conversations and not posts on some public forum but some things are better addressed in a 1:1 manner.

But they usually aren't doing it on a pen board. There is value in providing repair information that can be found, and questions answered, for someone new to pens or repairing.

[724Seney]

Most of the remaining professional repair people have given up sharing information, if they ever did.

I think this is a very unfair characterization of a wonderful and very accomplished group of men & women. I am in regular contact with some of the most highly regarded and busiest repair professionals in the world. I am ever astounded by the time, respect and kindness they provide to me...... without ever asking for or expecting anything in return. True, these are private conversations and not posts on some public forum but some things are better addressed in a 1:1 manner.

But they usually aren't doing it on a pen board. There is value in providing repair information that can be found, and questions answered, for someone new to pens or repairing.

Well, to your point, scroll up a couple of posts to #145 where @Jon Szanto says " It doesn't matter that, for instance, many of the repair vids are bogus amateurs, and pens will be harmed."
To borrow his words, "I won't speak for him" but I take that comment to mean he thinks that just because someone posts repair information on a board does not mean that it is of any value whatsoever.
And, if this interpretation of what he is saying is correct, I would agree 100%. I've seen some really bad advice offered on pen boards as though it were the gospel. Speaking for myself, I'd rather have no advice than bad advice.
The people I am referring to are very dedicated, generous people who know what they are talking about..........I am deeply grateful to them for their time & kindness. Perhaps their approach to sharing their knowledge is different from others but that does not make their contributions any less valuable to the pen community.

[Jon Szanto]

Well, to your point, scroll up a couple of posts to #145 where @Jon Szanto says " It doesn't matter that, for instance, many of the repair vids are bogus amateurs, and pens will be harmed."
To borrow his words, "I won't speak for him" but I take that comment to mean he thinks that just because someone posts repair information on a board does not mean that it is of any value whatsoever.
And, if this interpretation of what he is saying is correct, I would agree 100%. I've seen some really bad advice offered on pen boards as though it were the gospel. Speaking for myself, I'd rather have no advice than bad advice.

Um... that wasn't what I was thinking. My comment about the quality of pen repair videos was in line with my earlier point about the change in the dissemination of information. The use of videos primarily post-dates the era of people posting pen repair info in forums and mailing lists. In those scenarios, as long as there was an active audience, there could (and often was) a give and take on methodologies and approaches.

With a video presentation, while there may be a comment section, rarely does it get used for dialog between presenter and viewers, and I would hazard to guess that most don't even look. So when a new pen person buys, say, an old Parker at a flea market and looks up "Bonzo the Pernman" on YouTube to find out how to replace a diaphragm, all bets are off. It's like so much else in the world at the moment: lots of misinformation.

I have no doubt there are still really good repair people out there, though I worry that the supply will dwindle, and that probably is just how things go. But we don't have many alternatives to Richard Binder's site, or the "Pen Repair" book, and Repair sections on older forums did fill that void with good pen repair advice.

It's a marvelous situation if you can have face-to-face connections and relationships with a pen repair or restoration person, but the opportunities for that are rare for anyone but the lucky few who live in big cities, etc, where they still do their business. The ability to access reliable, safe information in this regard is online access for most people these days, and so the manner with which it is dispensed - especially without any discussion - is something to consider.

Good gods I type too much...

[724Seney]

Well, to your point, scroll up a couple of posts to #145 where @Jon Szanto says " It doesn't matter that, for instance, many of the repair vids are bogus amateurs, and pens will be harmed."
To borrow his words, "I won't speak for him" but I take that comment to mean he thinks that just because someone posts repair information on a board does not mean that it is of any value whatsoever.
And, if this interpretation of what he is saying is correct, I would agree 100%. I've seen some really bad advice offered on pen boards as though it were the gospel. Speaking for myself, I'd rather have no advice than bad advice.

Um... that wasn't what I was thinking. My comment about the quality of pen repair videos was in line with my earlier point about the change in the dissemination of information. The use of videos primarily post-dates the era of people posting pen repair info in forums and mailing lists. In those scenarios, as long as there was an active audience, there could (and often was) a give and take on methodologies and approaches.

With a video presentation, while there may be a comment section, rarely does it get used for dialog between presenter and viewers, and I would hazard to guess that most don't even look. So when a new pen person buys, say, an old Parker at a flea market and looks up "Bonzo the Pernman" on YouTube to find out how to replace a diaphragm, all bets are off. It's like so much else in the world at the moment: lots of misinformation.

I have no doubt there are still really good repair people out there, though I worry that the supply will dwindle, and that probably is just how things go. But we don't have many alternatives to Richard Binder's site, or the "Pen Repair" book, and Repair sections on older forums did fill that void with good pen repair advice.

It's a marvelous situation if you can have face-to-face connections and relationships with a pen repair or restoration person, but the opportunities for that are rare for anyone but the lucky few who live in big cities, etc, where they still do their business. The ability to access reliable, safe information in this regard is online access for most people these days, and so the manner with which it is dispensed - especially without any discussion - is something to consider.

Good gods I type too much...

I have no disagreement(s) with these thoughts and share your concern about the dwindling supply of good repair people. But, I do not think the solution to that concern is a person's making posts on line. I am more in agreement with @LizEF's laser sharp comment in post #149. She says "I sure hope professional repair people are passing their knowledge on to *someone*." Maybe we can agree that this type of activity would really be of "value"....... and far more so than just some online posts?

Finally, I am unable to resolve the paradox of your suggesting that online posts as the answer to the preservation of important repair information when, in the same post (#153), you correctly observe "So when a new pen person buys, say, an old Parker at a flea market and looks up "Bonzo the Pernman" on YouTube to find out how to replace a diaphragm, all bets are off." I agree with that comment. And, so, I would like to know how you think someone, and especially the "new pen person" is supposed to know what is good information and what is bad guidance when they make their search? Not to mention whether the poster of that information is even a well regarded pen repair person; if even a bonafide pen repair person at all?

IMO, the suggestion that one can assess a pen repair person's "value added" to the community by the frequency of his or her online posts is not valid.

[Jon Szanto]

@724Seney:

I wish I had an answer to your question, I really do. I don't know a way, at this moment, for new people to know what is valid and what isn't, regarding quality pen repair concepts. I do what I can to point people to either good source info or to professionals who can work on their pens. As to a long-term solution, I don't have an answer.

[FredRydr]

...I am in regular contact with some of the most highly regarded and busiest repair professionals in the world. I am ever astounded by the time, respect and kindness they provide to me...... without ever asking for or expecting anything in return....

Fantastic! Please list them here so that we may benefit from their skill, and they can benefit from our custom.

[724Seney]

@724Seney:

I wish I had an answer to your question, I really do. I don't know a way, at this moment, for new people to know what is valid and what isn't, regarding quality pen repair concepts. I do what I can to point people to either good source info or to professionals who can work on their pens. As to a long-term solution, I don't have an answer.

Which takes us full circle back to my initial "push back" over @Ron Zorn's comment in post #147 and his subsequent follow-up comment in his post # 151. IMO his comments represent an unfair characterization of his professional colleagues, many of whom follow the posts here and on FPG but choose not to reply.

I realize what I am about to say is a pure anecdote........ but I do want to mention I know for a fact one of those professional colleagues will PM someone from time to time if he feels he has some helpful information to offer or strongly disagrees with a recommendation which others have "seconded," so to speak. To me, that's "value."

And, yes, I do the same as you. ("point people to either good source info or to professionals who can work on their pens.")

[724Seney]

...I am in regular contact with some of the most highly regarded and busiest repair professionals in the world. I am ever astounded by the time, respect and kindness they provide to me...... without ever asking for or expecting anything in return....

Fantastic! Please list them here so that we may benefit from their skill, and they can benefit from our custom.

And start a major pissing match over who is or is not mentioned??
Not a chance...........!!!!!!!
I respond to PMs and always welcome them from someone who is looking for my advice or opinion.
And, in the end, that's all it is.....my advice or opinion. People can take it or leave it.

[Ron Z]

Oh good grief.

[Jon Szanto]

Yeah, I'm done.