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Thread: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom. View Post
    The blowing I think is an excuse given by the really hard IG fans because they don't blow they inhale.
    Ugh!

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    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    ...Blow into bottle and quickly replace cap to replace oxygen with carbon dioxide. ...
    That's not going to work:

    Attachment 76038Attachment 76040
    Fred, I believe, Carbon Dioxide is "heavier" and will make a cushion between Oxygen and the ink

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    ...Blow into bottle and quickly replace cap to replace oxygen with carbon dioxide. ...
    That's not going to work:

    Attachment 76038Attachment 76040
    Fred, I believe, Carbon Dioxide is "heavier" and will make a cushion between Oxygen and the ink
    Their densities aren’t different enough for such a separation of oxygen and carbon dioxide. Imagine trying to live on earth where we’d have to deal with passing through layers of suffocating gases in our atmosphere to get to the oxygen layer.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Besides: Exhaling into ink bottles doesn't seem to be the most hygienic way to treat ink ... but hey, iron gall ink isn't meant to be stored for long anyway.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieParadise View Post
    ... but hey, iron gall ink isn't meant to be stored for long anyway.
    Yes, the precipitations are aging processes with these strong fountain pen iron gall inks, you can delay them a bit, but ultimately not prevent them. In the past, it was not uncommon for official tenders for such inks to include quarterly deliveries to ensure the inks were not too old.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieParadise View Post
    Besides: Exhaling into ink bottles doesn't seem to be the most hygienic way to treat ink ...
    What?!?


    (drawn with Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte...)
    Last edited by christof; March 8th, 2023 at 09:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by christof View Post

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    I miss the necessary seriousness here. Anyone who wants to blow into the ESSRI can do so. ESSRI is one of the most acidic fountain pen inks available and there is also phenol in it. If it ever contaminates, it will have long been just a shadow of itself due to the aging mentioned above.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    ... Traditionally, IG ink was written on parchment (medieval times) it reacted well, and turned black. But then over time it reverted into brown. ...
    Yazeh, I am thinking if we can still do this, but I think so. The changes in lettering have only just begun and they will eventually end, but not in this century.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WXwTDZkr78

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    ... Traditionally, IG ink was written on parchment (medieval times) it reacted well, and turned black. But then over time it reverted into brown. ...
    Yazeh, I am thinking if we can still do this, but I think so. The changes in lettering have only just begun and they will eventually end, but not in this century.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WXwTDZkr78
    Thanks Thom. I'll take the time to watch it. My information is based on this Dutch site. I've read and reread their pages multiple times. Unfortunately their funding was cut. But they are delightful people.
    https://irongallink.org/home-the-iro...k-website.html
    They have a very interesting video on how IG ink ages with humidity in just 14 days:
    https://irongallink.org/ink-corrosio...and-water.html


    I also read this book:
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/014...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Which I thoroughly enjoyed. It's very well written. But it had some inconsistencies. It claimed Inks used to write the Dead Sea Scrolls, are IG. I contacted the Dead Sea Scroll society and they said that they aren't sure and it's probably Carbon black.
    Geographically speaking, IG inks would have been, I believe, better suited for the dry climate of Middle East and Lamp black, better for Europe

    I think the great draw back of IG ink is it's short shelf life. I got two bottle of Gutenberg Urkundentinten and they were pale light brown and extremely dry. Ironically, I have some old expired Essri in a Pilot Varsity pen snd it still write fine and it's waterproof. Though it won't oxidizes to the dark blue black

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    ...It claimed Inks used to write the Dead Sea Scrolls, are IG. I contacted the Dead Sea Scroll society and they said that they aren't sure and it's probably Carbon black. ...
    They're 2000 years old and still black, which is most likely carbon.
    You can completely forget the G10 after 2.5 to 3 years in the container, since it's just scrap.
    Last edited by Thom.; March 12th, 2023 at 03:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    ... They have a very interesting video on how IG ink ages with humidity in just 14 days:
    https://irongallink.org/ink-corrosio...and-water.html
    Thanks! So that's really good. Sulfuric acid may have formed with the sulfate ions in the paper.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Does anyone make a black black iron gall ink?
    Hi Lloyd,

    you could do a mix of ESSRI (DRI should work as well) and Gutenberg G10:

    G10_ESSRI.jpg

    It is not the deepest black - from a dry pen even a "shading black".

    Best
    Jens
    Last edited by Schaumburg_Swan; March 12th, 2023 at 08:12 PM.
    Schaumburg_Swan aka SchaumburgSwan
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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Has the candle powered inkwell been invented? A flame will consume all the oxygen.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Darn it! I kept reading about iron gall and because of that I had to buy a bottle of Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte. Now I regret not getting the red too.

    That will be my first iron gall ink, if we exclude some Platinum blue-black cartridges and some noname Chinese made cartridges (who are delicately perfumed to mask the iron smell).

    And now I'm wondering what pen to use when it arrives? Sailor 1911 MF? Pilot Falcon SEF, since it that ink is well lubricated?

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrawler View Post
    ... A flame will consume all the oxygen.
    And not only that, here is the Anna Amalia Library in Weimar. https://www.planet-wissen.de/gesells...apremiumxl.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithium466 View Post
    ... And now I'm wondering what pen to use when it arrives? ...
    I advise caution at IG with coated stainless steel nibs and metal appliqués that are not intended for permanent ink contact. Bare stainless steel nibs are no problem. This is because if the IG ink is concentrated for a long time, it may eventually peel the coating.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Ok that's probably a stupid question, but does that apply to rhodium coated nibs too? Or just PVD coated nibs, like the Lamy Z52 for ex?
    Sounds like Sailor 1911 it will be, that's one of my only standard gold nibs.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithium466 View Post
    Ok that's probably a stupid question, but does that apply to rhodium coated nibs too? ...
    The question is not stupid at all. The answer is I don't know. We only have the practical experience with gold-coated stainless steel nibs, but with e.g. R&K Salix.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    I just read through the Registrars Ink discussion on the FPN. Here's the historical chemistry of the iron gall inks in quick. The inks have been in use since at least the Middle Ages and the change in writing instruments changes the inks. In the case of the goose quill, they were more pigmented and more viscous. With the metal nibs in the 19th century, they were made thinner by keeping more IG in solution, the agent for this is acid, the inks became more acidic. The fountain pen IG inks, which pigment over time (and the air) in the bottle, are then unsuitable for fountain pens with the strong precipitation, but not for dip pens.

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    Default Re: Büroservice Bergmann Blaufliessende Eisengallustinte (blue flowing iron gall)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom. View Post
    I just read through the Registrars Ink discussion on the FPN. Here's the historical chemistry of the iron gall inks in quick. The inks have been in use since at least the Middle Ages and the change in writing instruments changes the inks. In the case of the goose quill, they were more pigmented and more viscous. With the metal nibs in the 19th century, they were made thinner by keeping more IG in solution, the agent for this is acid, the inks became more acidic. The fountain pen IG inks, which pigment over time (and the air) in the bottle, are then unsuitable for fountain pens with the strong precipitation, but not for dip pens.
    They also added Indigo, if memory serves me right. The belief was that it would less corrode, the iron nibs, and thus was created the blue black

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