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Thread: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

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    Default Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    Good day everyone, I bought this pen for spares and as the nib is in awful conditions I would like to remove it. Question is who knows how it is inserted in the section, like Pelikan's nibs it is screwed in with its feed or is it friction fit. ATM the pen is nib down in a jar of water, just to soften any dried out ink. Thank you Marco

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    I would read this article from Beaufort Pens as well as the one they link to from The Indian Marmalade Company They are both excellent articles about the Kaweco Dia despite the fact that they refer to the Dia2 model and not the original model.

    As far as Google is concerned this old FPN post came up with a warning about pulling out the nib unit on an 85.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    the vintage Dia nib does not screw in/out although it has a collar between the assembly and the section, I pulled it and out it came. Don't think it is a Bock as at the time they didn't use this supplier?

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    Good day everyone, I bought this pen for spares and as the nib is in awful conditions I would like to remove it. Question is who knows how it is inserted in the section, like Pelikan's nibs it is screwed in with its feed or is it friction fit. ATM the pen is nib down in a jar of water, just to soften any dried out ink. Thank you Marco
    The nib and feed are friction fit, into a collar that screws into the section.

    Don't try to unscrew it though. Pull the nib (or drive it out). Kaweco's piston mechanisms are super simple. The whole assembly unscrews from the barrel.

    -edit-

    Whoops, didn't see your final post before I started typing.

    Kaweco made their own nibs in the 50's.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    Hi, so I did the right thing, by chance, by pulling it out and not trying to unscrew the whole thing.
    The piston mechanism came out without problems, it is a bit stiff though to unscrew but when I'll put it back in again I'll smother some silicone grease on the screw threads.
    I left the shaft of the piston with the cork seal in a cup of water all day. This should have 'pumped' up the cork again. In case it still doesn't suck water how do I remove the plastic bit that holds the cork in place? Is it screwed in or is it pression fit? Thank you

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    If there's cork, it's probably pinned. The shaft should be square. Look at the corners close to the cork.

    Usually the hole is a little off center, so pay attention to the orientation and put it back together in the same alignment. If you look through the hole before you reinstall the pin, you'll see what I mean.

    Kaweco112 - 5.jpeg
    Last edited by dneal; June 7th, 2023 at 04:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    @dneal, thank you for the photo. My shaft is exactly like the one in the photo. How do I knock out the pin, gently or with a small hammer and small nail? If the cork has shrunk beyond repair alternatives to making a new one, o-rings? thank you

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    It will push out easily. Don't use any force, or the celluloid will crack (this is also the reason orientation is important when putting it back together).

    Here's a quick sketch of the assembly.

    Cork - 2.jpeg

    The cork is under slight compression, which is what holds the pin tight. Grab it by each end and squeeze slightly, and the pin will push out with little to no force. I use a small awl, but anything small and stiff enough to push it will work. I use a small pair of pliers to hold the pin when I reinsert it. You should have to compress it slightly again to install. It will slide back in just as easily. If it doesn't, don't force it and check the alignment. It's probably 180 degrees out of position.

    Cork - 1.jpeg

    I would use cork instead of O-rings. With some calipers, measure and record the outside diameter. When you remove the cork, measure and record the length and inside diameter. You'll need those numbers to make the new one.
    Last edited by dneal; June 8th, 2023 at 07:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    my shaft is made of plastic, I can see the mould junction rim between the two sides. Tried squeezing the shaft, as you suggest, but the pin does not come out just the same 🙄

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    The pin does come out just the same. You just haven't gotten it out.

    You can vary the pressure, try either end of the pin, use more force, etc... and you might or might not break it. If you don't think you can do it, send it to a repair person.

    You haven't posted any pics of the pen, and the 10 year span of "50's" contains a big leap in design and material technology. I'm assuming you have a celluloid Dia, produced from the mid-30's to early 50's. The materials used were ebonite and celluloid (types of plastics). I highly doubt you have an oil polymer plastic shaft.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    Here are a few pics. Sorry, wasn't in front of a proper PC.

    IMG_5304.jpeg

    IMG_5306.jpg

    IMG_5308.jpeg

    The nib was a replacement and completely bent. The feed is correct for this pen. The pen is in celluloid.
    I'll try squeezing again without tools as while pressing the pin the shaft slipped and I bit off a tiny piece of the cork holder :-(

    BTW, Lambrou says the post war Dia 85A had a steel or chromium/nickel nib. Strangely most of thephotos I've seen online all have gold nibs. So which is which? Did they go back to gold nibs towards the end of the 50s?

    HTH

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    There's no need for tools to squeeze. It's just cork. Use your fingers. Even with your fingers, if you squeeze too hard, you're putting tension on the pin in the opposite direction. You want to just squeeze enough to relieve the tension the cork is creating. Vary it and you'll find the sweet spot.

    If you can clearly see the pin on one side and not the other, push on the side you can't see (or see as well).

    Kaweco made 14k nibs and some labeled IA-40. I initially was led to believe they were wartime palladium nibs. They're some sort of alloy, and I've seen them with monotone and duotone "gold" wash (don't know if it was genuine or not). There's probably some dating correlation as the war progressed. Gold became forbidden to use for nibs. Palladium replaced that, and then that was forbidden due to wartime shortages.

    There's a period where Kaweco marked "A" or "G" after the model number, the former indicating an IA-40 nib and the latter gold. Sometimes only "A" was marked, and usually there's no indicator for nib material. This idea shows up a couple of times. It appears introduced during wartime, went away when gold became available (the 12G, with 14k nib and polymer piston, still has "G"). The V16's had an "N" added if it was fitted with a steel nib.

    Your 85A would have come with an IA-40 nib, and most were washed monotone gold.
    Last edited by dneal; June 8th, 2023 at 11:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    There's no need for tools to squeeze. It's just cork. Use your fingers. Even with your fingers, if you squeeze too hard, you're putting tension on the pin in the opposite direction. You want to just squeeze enough to relieve the tension the cork is creating. Vary it and you'll find the sweet spot.

    If you can clearly see the pin on one side and not the other, push on the side you can't see (or see as well).

    Kaweco made 14k nibs and some labeled IA-40. I initially was led to believe they were wartime palladium nibs. They're some sort of alloy, and I've seen them with monotone and duotone "gold" wash (don't know if it was genuine or not). There's probably some dating correlation as the war progressed. Gold became forbidden to use for nibs. Palladium replaced that, and then that was forbidden due to wartime shortages.

    There's a period where Kaweco marked "A" or "G" after the model number, the former indicating an IA-40 nib and the latter gold. Sometimes only "A" was marked, and usually there's no indicator for nib material. This idea shows up a couple of times. It appears introduced during wartime, went away when gold became available (the 12G, with 14k nib and polymer piston, still has "G"). The V16's had an "N" added if it was fitted with a steel nib.

    Your 85A would have come with an IA-40 nib, and most were washed monotone gold.
    I have seen a number of such pens fitted with a 14k Warranted nib in the after market, so many that for a time I thought it was a standard nib.

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    @dneal, the cork turns freely in its place so there isn't much tension between the holder plate and the pin, IMO. I give up, my hands hurt badly if I try to squeeze a bit hard, I can't do these jobs anymore. I'll see if I can send it to get fixed. Thank you for your time and support. As for the history of the nibs not even Kaweco could tell me anything, they sent me brochures of all the Dias 85 but nothing on the 85A. I'll see which nib I can find. Cheers

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    I just checked on my working Dia 85A and the nib has an IA-40 imprint, the nib is some kind of steel as per 85A in the model number 👍🏻

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    If this sounds harsh or pointed, it's not intended that way; but many people run across threads like this from internet searches... This is more for them.

    This is a hobby, and repair is part of it. People can get involved in that aspect of it, or pay someone else to do it. Cost, rarity and other factors become involved as well. I applaud those that assume sensible risk and find reward, and your threads prompt me to believe you find it generally satisfying.

    Some mechanical aptitude is required. Some people have a lot innately, some none. Most develop it the hard way: through mistakes. When those 3 minute jobs turn into 3 day ordeals, and sometimes expensive disasters, simply because of mistakes; they're lessons well learned. My sense is that you understand all this, but a lot of folks don't.

    This is the reason (I suspect) the repair folks don't like giving advice. Perhaps they feel some responsibility for mistakes, or some blame them for their own. When I read you were using tools to squeeze brittle celluloid, and chipped it; I had a lot of sympathy for folks like Ron.

    If the cork isn't adding tension to the pin, there's nothing to relieve it by squeezing. There's absolutely no reason to use a tool, or squeeze so hard your hand hurts; in any case. Again, celluloid is brittle. Anyway,

    There are a few reasons the pin isn't coming out, off the top of my head:

    - You're squeezing way too hard, and based on the pictures and comments that cork is past saving and not doing what a good cork would (providing tension, in the case of the shaft).
    - The pin is too short, not reaching one hole on the outer shaft, which would allow the insert to rotate slightly. Slight misalignment makes it impossible to remove or install without breaking.
    - The pin is slightly bent, creating resistance. You would have to apply more force and hope it didn't break.

    This gets back to aptitude and risk calculus, which only you can evaluate (since only you will ultimately decide what course you take).

    At this point though, I think you should take it to someone with more experience.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Kaweco Dia 85A from the 50s

    @dneal, I totally agree with what you said. I know my limits and that's when I stop to avoid further damage, although the idea that something as simple as removing a pin can't be done, really bugs me 😊
    Arthritis has been creeping in my hands, what I could do years ago I can't do anymore, sadly. This said I still enjoy doing what I can on my pens 👍🏻

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