Which paper to use for a beginner copperplate writer.

[Carpio]

Hello,

I appreciate it is a bit of a cheek asking in this forum, but I have tried joining a calligraphy forum to ask calligraphy orientated questions, but unfortunately, the enrolling page to join that forum is not working as it should, and I've contacted the owner, but no reply.
So, if it is OK, I'll ask my question here -

I'm trying to learn to write Copperplate. Badly at the moment, but I'll get their. The issue I have - I have bought fountain pens recently that have a little flex, medium flex and super-dooper flex, but I really want to use dip pens. I've bought several of those recently (dip pens), and I've bought a lot of dip pen ink, and here's the question - I have also bought several notepads - rhodia, clairefontaine and some real smooth paper which the advert said would not allow feathering and bleed, but the buggers told porkies. I have yet to find a paper which, when using a dip pen, with dip pen ink, doesn't allow bleed and feathering. If somebody could point me in the right direction of where to buy/what to try, I'd be very much obliged.
I'm a Brit, so the location would be preferrably in the UK, but for something tried and tested I will consider buying from anywhere.
Many thanks in advance of any help.

Carpio

[Wile E Coyote]

I don't do flex, but I like a wet broad nib. I've never had problems with Rhodia. Apica seems pretty good too.

[manoeuver]

20lb name-brand printer paper is usually quite sufficient for dip pen practice.
you'll want to do some practice on a nice vellum also to get to know how it behaves,
but you just need a big pile of something good enough to run through as you get your muscle memory down, yeah?

[Yazeh]

First of all it ain't no cheek
May I ask what ink are you using?
In my experience some colour dip pen inks feather, no matter the paper.
Also do you wipe the excess ink off, before applying?

[Carpio]

Hello,

I'm using 'Diamine Calligraphy' Black. As for wiping the excess off - I give the nib a tap against the side of the 'well' before writing.
I thought it could have been an issue with the nib I was using, well, not the nib itself but my lack of experience - I was pressing too hard on the Nikko G, and scratching the paper, leading into bleeding through, so I changed nibs to a 'Brause Steno 361B', and made a conscious effort not to press too hard which resulted into not so much scratching, and gentler on the 'down' strokes meant less 'bleed through', but still more than wanted (so much so that I couldn't write on the reverse side).
I've just double checked - the book I'm practising in/on/with is - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Calligraphy...ps%2C80&sr=8-2 I'm not blaming the tools I'm using, but something isn't right when respected people are writing that they don't get bleedthrough when they are testing ink/ink on different paper, yet I seem to (not with FP ink/nibs), which leads me to doubt myself, which is a new experience for me 'cuz I'm usually perfect - joking aside, could it be the paper? could it be the nib I'm using/or me pressing too hard with said nib? the ink? (I don't think for 1 minute this is the issue because it's Diamine, but it is 'calligraphy' ink not FP ink) something is obviously wrong. Any help would be very much appreciated

Carpio

[manoeuver]

Hello,

I'm using 'Diamine Calligraphy' Black. As for wiping the excess off - I give the nib a tap against the side of the 'well' before writing.
I thought it could have been an issue with the nib I was using, well, not the nib itself but my lack of experience - I was pressing too hard on the Nikko G, and scratching the paper, leading into bleeding through, so I changed nibs to a 'Brause Steno 361B', and made a conscious effort not to press too hard which resulted into not so much scratching, and gentler on the 'down' strokes meant less 'bleed through', but still more than wanted (so much so that I couldn't write on the reverse side).
I've just double checked - the book I'm practising in/on/with is - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Calligraphy...ps%2C80&sr=8-2 I'm not blaming the tools I'm using, but something isn't right when respected people are writing that they don't get bleedthrough when they are testing ink/ink on different paper, yet I seem to (not with FP ink/nibs), which leads me to doubt myself, which is a new experience for me 'cuz I'm usually perfect - joking aside, could it be the paper? could it be the nib I'm using/or me pressing too hard with said nib? the ink? (I don't think for 1 minute this is the issue because it's Diamine, but it is 'calligraphy' ink not FP ink) something is obviously wrong. Any help would be very much appreciated

Carpio

we may be able to provide better help if you post some photos

[Yazeh]

If you press too hard, ink bleeds through. I you have excess ink on your nib, ink bleed through. This happens often with fountain pens with extra fine nibs, especially Japanese. So it's normal that it happens with dip pen nibs.
In my experience, when practicing calligraphy with calligraphy ink, you'll always have bleed through. I always used cheap paper, as the important thing was to practice.
The importance is to have a light touch (easier said than done) and avoid the death grip. Calligraphy is the art of becoming one with each character. It's a mediation. You need to become of you arm and mentally relax it, slower your breath. It takes time and patience. Come back in 6 months of regular practice and you'll understand what I'm saying

[Carpio]

Hello,

Thank you very much for taking time to reply. I appreciate it.
Unfortunately, I have no leads for my phone to be able to post pictures, but I do need to get some, so I will visit Amazon and buy some and then I will post some photos.

I have to be honest, and say that I thought it may be related to my pressing too hard, even if I thunked I was pressing lightly. As for the death grip.... I have actually tried to be very light 'fingered and thumbed' with this, having read about the 'death grip', and although I still have a grip on the pen tight, (tighter than I would like), I am still struggling with what I call, 'the shakes'. The lighter I try to hold the pen, the shakier the line(s) are looking, but I do actually spend a while practising that and it will no doubt be better the more I do practise.
I have bought Eleanor Winters book 'Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy - A step-by-step manual' and have read that the book is very good, and explains in laymans terms how to do what you need to do to be succesful in mastering Copperplate.

I'll buy the telephone leads in the next day or so, and I'll buy a box of printer paper at the same time. Actually, hold that thought....
I just went to Amazon, and found this,...'Hammermill Printer Paper, Fore Multipurpose 20lb Copy Paper, 8.5 x 11-1 Ream (500 Sheets) - 96 Bright, Made in The USA.'
I noticed the '20lb' in the selling bumf and where it was made so I'll give that a go.
Thank you both yet again. Much obliged for the help.

Carpio

[Yazeh]

You can just send the photos with bluetooth to your computer or upload them to dropbox. And from there to your computer. With he Hammermill paper you'll have quite a bit of bleed through. It should be ok after all you don't want to use HP 32 paper just for practicing

[Carpio]

Hello,

I ordered a ream (2x250) of 120gsm from Staples on Monday. It arrived yesterday morning. When I opened the packaging, I noticed that 1 pack was 120gsm and packed in bubblewrap, and 1 pack was 90gsm which was packed in plastic wrap, with the paper packaging torn open (it was also a full ream), so I telephoned them, and spoke with a very pleasant lady who asked me to take a photograph of the torn wrapping. I explained I couldn't. She said no worries - to make good she would send 250 sheets of 120gsm and said I could keep the 90gsm foc. I received the 250 sheets about 45 minutes ago. Awesome service, allbeit a mistake on their part, but I will certainly be using them again.
I'll test it out shortly with my new dip pen that also arrived yesterday from China (took 2 weeks to arrive - not bad).

Carpio

[calamus]

I'm not sure that 20 lb. paper is a good choice for practice paper for pointed nib calligraphy. I'd go with 32 lb. premium laser printer copy paper. It's still way cheaper than the good stuff. For that, I'd recommend John Neal Books (johnnealbooks.com). It is the calligraphy superstore. They're great; I love them. I really like their powdered walnut ink, by the way (https://www.johnnealbooks.com/produc...t-ink-crystals). Great stuff. And for high-class paper, which they carry tons of, I'd suggest checking out their pergamenata fake parchment (https://www.johnnealbooks.com/produc...menata-160-gsm). Sweet. You may also want to use some pounce (https://www.johnnealbooks.com/product/gum-sandarac), which according to the item description is used "on vellum and paper just before writing to achieve fine hairlines. Will help produce crisper letters. May stop bleeding, and help with feathering."

[Carpio]

Hello,

I'm not sure that 20 lb. paper is a good choice for practice paper for pointed nib calligraphy. I'd go with 32 lb. premium laser printer copy paper. It's still way cheaper than the good stuff. For that, I'd recommend John Neal Books (johnnealbooks.com). It is the calligraphy superstore. They're great; I love them. I really like their powdered walnut ink, by the way (https://www.johnnealbooks.com/produc...t-ink-crystals). Great stuff. And for high-class paper, which they carry tons of, I'd suggest checking out their pergamenata fake parchment (https://www.johnnealbooks.com/produc...menata-160-gsm). Sweet. You may also want to use some pounce (https://www.johnnealbooks.com/product/gum-sandarac), which according to the item description is used "on vellum and paper just before writing to achieve fine hairlines. Will help produce crisper letters. May stop bleeding, and help with feathering."

Thank you so much for that, calamus. I've put 'johnnealbooks' straight into my favourites. Very much obliged.

Carpio

[calamus]

You're welcome! And just in case anyone is wondering, I'm not affiliated with them in any way. I just have had great experiences with them. They also offer online calligraphy courses. I've never taken one, but given the overall quality of the rest of their offerings, I imagine it could be worth looking into.

[Merrick]

I’m in the middle of a calligraphy course right now and I’m using vellum for my practice. For one, it lets me trace on workbooks without marking the original pages, and also it’s tough enough to not be torn by the nib and the ink doesn’t feather.