Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 179

Thread: Dangers to Democracy

  1. #1
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Dangers to Democracy

    Rep Dan Goldman today:

    We all agree with the First Amendment, but the problem is that the First Amendment is not absolute. There are limits.

    What this committee has been trying to do for the last year and a half is to chill the federal government from monitoring what is going on on social media.

    So that misinformation and disinformation can run rampant on Elon Musk's social platform and every other social platform so that they the Republicans can benefit from it in November's election.
    Confession through projection. Democrat misinformation campaigns:

    Russian Collusion
    Hunter Biden's Laptop
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  2. #2
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    House Judiciary Committee March 6 2024: FINANCIAL SURVEILLANCE IN THE UNITED STATES: HOW FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMANDEERED FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS TO SPY ON AMERICANS


    Federal law enforcement, including the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) and the FBI, facilitated multiple backchannel discussions with financial institutions to gather Americans’ private financial information. These discussions involved some of the largest financial institutions in the United States, such as Barclays, U.S. Bank, Charles Schwab, HSBC, Bank of America, PayPal, and many others. Tactics included keyword filtering of transactions, targeting terms like "MAGA" and "TRUMP," as well as purchases of books, religious texts, firearms-related items, and recreational stores, like Cabela’s, Bass Pro Shop, and Dick’s Sporting Goods. This surveillance extended beyond criminal suspicion, likely encompassing millions of Americans with conservative viewpoints or Second Amendment interests.

    The report also details the existence of a web portal run by the Domestic Security Alliance Council (DSAC), a public-private partnership led by the FBI's Office of Private Sector and the Department of Homeland Security's Office of Intelligence and Analysis. This portal appears to have shared intelligence products with financial institutions that were used to identify individuals who fit the profile of criminal and "domestic violent extremists," often because of their conservative political views or other constitutionally protected activity. Federal law enforcement used these reports and other materials they shared with financial institutions to commandeer their databases and conduct sweeping searches of individuals not suspected of committing any crimes, without a warrant, in order to identify individuals making certain “suspicious” transactions.

    The pattern of financial surveillance uncovered in the report raises serious concerns about federal law enforcement's and financial institutions' commitment to respecting Americans' privacy rights and fundamental civil liberties.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  3. #3
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    The Intercept, Mar 6 2024: Gov Whitmer Kidnapping Plot Orchestrated by FBI

    A MONTH BEFORE the 2020 presidential election, the Justice Department announced that the FBI had foiled a plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, whose pandemic lockdown measures drew harsh criticism from President Donald Trump and his supporters.

    The alleged plot coincided with growing concern about far-right political violence in America. But the FBI quickly realized it had a problem: A key informant in the case, a career snitch with a long rap sheet, had helped to orchestrate the kidnapping plot. During the undercover sting, the FBI ignored crimes that the informant, Stephen Robeson, appeared to have committed, including fraud and illegal possession of a sniper rifle.

    The Whitmer kidnapping case followed a pattern familiar from hundreds of previous FBI counterterrorism stings that have targeted Muslims in the post-9/11 era. Those cases too raised questions about whether the crimes could have happened at all without the prodding of undercover agents and informants.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  4. #4
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    From the archives: The Atlantic, Dec 13 2014: A Brief History of the CIA's Unpunished Spying on the Senate

    President Obama's choice to lead the intelligence agency has undermined core checks and balances with impunity.

    By Conor FriedersdorfDecember 23, 2014
    This is the story of John Brennan's CIA spying on Congress and getting away with it.

    Last March, Senator Dianne Feinstein accused the CIA of spying on the Senate intelligence committee as it labored to finalize its report on the torture of prisoners. “I have grave concerns that the CIA’s search may well have violated the separation of powers principles embodied in the United States Constitution,” she said. “I have asked for an apology and a recognition that this CIA search of computers used by its oversight committee was inappropriate. I have received neither.”

    CIA Director John Brennan denied the charge. “Nothing could be further from the truth,” he said. “We wouldn’t do that. That’s just beyond the scope of reason in terms of what we’d do.” It would be months before his denial was publicly proved false. "An internal investigation by the C.I.A. has found that its officers penetrated a computer network used by the Senate Intelligence Committee in preparing its damning report on the C.I.A.’s detention and interrogation program," The New York Times reported. "The report by the agency’s inspector general also found that C.I.A. officers read the emails of the Senate investigators and sent a criminal referral to the Justice Department based on false information."
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  5. #5
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Maybe this is what Dan Goldman is worried about:

    AP, April 4 2017: Obama aide denies using intel to spy on Trump advisers

    Politifact still rates Trump Claim "Obama spied on my campaign and got caught!" as FALSE (image below).

    Yet we learn this recently. Real Clear Politics, Feb 28 2024: Obama's CIA Asked Foreign Intel Agencies to Spy on Trump Campaign

    The revelation that the U.S. intelligence community, under the Obama administration, sought the assistance of the “Five Eyes” intelligence alliance to surveil Donald Trump’s associates before the 2016 election is a chilling reminder of the lengths to which the Deep State will go to protect its interests and challenge its adversaries. (The Five Eyes countries are the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.) This bombshell, reported by a team of independent journalists, exposes a dark chapter in American political history, where foreign intelligence services were reportedly mobilized against a presidential candidate.

    The alleged operation against Trump and his associates, which predates the official start of the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane investigation, is a stark example of political weaponization of intelligence. The involvement of foreign allies in surveilling American citizens under the pretext of national security raises serious questions about the integrity of our democratic processes and the autonomy of our nation’s intelligence operations.

    The narrative that has been pushed for years, that the investigation into Trump’s campaign began with an Australian tip about a boastful Trump aide, now appears to be a cover for a more extensive and coordinated effort to undermine Trump. If reports are accurate, British intelligence began targeting Trump on behalf of American intelligence agencies as early as 2015, long before the official narrative claims.

    The implications of this are profound. It suggests an unprecedented level of collusion between U.S. intelligence agencies and their foreign counterparts to influence the outcome of an American presidential election. The use of foreign intelligence to circumvent American laws and surveillance limitations represents a grave threat to our nation’s sovereignty and the principles of democracy.

    The fact that this operation was reportedly initiated at the behest of high-ranking officials within the Obama administration, including CIA Director John Brennan, only adds to the severity of the situation. Brennan’s alleged identification of Trump associates for surveillance by the Five Eyes alliance, and the directive to “bump” or make contact with them, illustrates a deliberate strategy to entangle the Trump campaign in a web of suspicion and intrigue.

    Moreover, the reported involvement of foreign intelligence in crafting the Russia collusion narrative not only delegitimizes the subsequent investigation but also highlights the willingness of certain elements within the U.S. government to exploit international partnerships for domestic political gain. This revelation demands a thorough and transparent examination to ensure that such abuses of power are brought to light and severely punished to discourage them from being repeated.

    As more details emerge, it is imperative that the American public demand accountability from those who orchestrated and executed this operation. The sanctity of our electoral process and the trust in our intelligence agencies are at stake. We must not allow the politicization of intelligence to go unchecked, nor can we tolerate the involvement of foreign powers in our democratic processes.
    There's that John Brennan name again. Didn't he say Hunter's Laptop was disinformation?



    Screen Shot 2024-03-07 at 7.16.34 PM.png
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    8,182
    Thanks
    688
    Thanked 952 Times in 739 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Common sense will tell you that a democracy is in danger when the ballot is removed, made more difficult to access, ballots thrown out, or when only one candidate is allowed to be on the ticket and all others sent to a labor camp, poisoned, or killed.

  7. #7
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Common sense will tell you that a democracy is in danger when the ballot is removed, made more difficult to access, ballots thrown out, or when only one candidate is allowed to be on the ticket and all others sent to a labor camp, poisoned, or killed.
    Let's see. Democrats challenge RFK Jr's access to the ballot. Democrats wage lawfare campaign to bankrupt or jail Trump, or keep him off the ballot (recently overturned in a unanimous decision).

    Yes, common sense would tell one those are dangers to democracy.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    8,182
    Thanks
    688
    Thanked 952 Times in 739 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Hold on now!! If you take away the electorate's ability to participate, isn't that something you should address if you are so concerned about democracy?

  9. #9
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    The Supreme Court already addressed it, 9-0.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  10. #10
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    This guy is a danger to democracy, but he only realizes it when it comes back to bite him.

    Seems to be a trend with Democrats.

    NY state senator Kevin Parker has been accused of rape, under Adult Survivors Act, which he voted for so E. Jean Carroll could sue Trump.

    Now that he has been accused, he asserts the law is unconstitutional.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  11. #11
    Senior Member karmachanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    The edge
    Posts
    140
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 66 Times in 46 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Democracy? Is that like the Sanity Clause?
    Add Lightness and Simplicate

  12. #12
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,223
    Thanks
    1,754
    Thanked 662 Times in 429 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    House Judiciary Committee March 6 2024: FINANCIAL SURVEILLANCE IN THE UNITED STATES: HOW FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMANDEERED FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS TO SPY ON AMERICANS


    Federal law enforcement, including the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) and the FBI, facilitated multiple backchannel discussions with financial institutions to gather Americans’ private financial information. These discussions involved some of the largest financial institutions in the United States, such as Barclays, U.S. Bank, Charles Schwab, HSBC, Bank of America, PayPal, and many others. Tactics included keyword filtering of transactions, targeting terms like "MAGA" and "TRUMP," as well as purchases of books, religious texts, firearms-related items, and recreational stores, like Cabela’s, Bass Pro Shop, and Dick’s Sporting Goods. This surveillance extended beyond criminal suspicion, likely encompassing millions of Americans with conservative viewpoints or Second Amendment interests.

    The report also details the existence of a web portal run by the Domestic Security Alliance Council (DSAC), a public-private partnership led by the FBI's Office of Private Sector and the Department of Homeland Security's Office of Intelligence and Analysis. This portal appears to have shared intelligence products with financial institutions that were used to identify individuals who fit the profile of criminal and "domestic violent extremists," often because of their conservative political views or other constitutionally protected activity. Federal law enforcement used these reports and other materials they shared with financial institutions to commandeer their databases and conduct sweeping searches of individuals not suspected of committing any crimes, without a warrant, in order to identify individuals making certain “suspicious” transactions.

    The pattern of financial surveillance uncovered in the report raises serious concerns about federal law enforcement's and financial institutions' commitment to respecting Americans' privacy rights and fundamental civil liberties.
    Actually, I know a bit about FinCEN. FinCEN searches for money movement to global crime groups, and, mostly, works to spot the movement of money to terrorist groups from terrorist financiers. Think back to the Trade Center attacks: it took money to house and feed the bombers when they arrived in the US. It took money to pay for their flying lessons. That was how the Justice Department learned that Al Qaeda bankers in Saudi Arabia paid for the attacks.

    FinCEN has a rule that any money that goes to a US domicile bank account, or that leaves a US bank account, should be reported. FinCen searches all these transactions to find patterns connected to terrorism. At first, there was a $10,000 minimum on transaction: anything above would be reported, but anything less was to be ignored. Justice and Treasury found that criminals were moving money in batches of $9,999. The US government reduced the minimum, and, of course, crooks did business in a dollar less than whatever the minimum was. Finally, FinCEN ordered all banks to report all overseas transactions, no matter what the amount. And FinCEN works with similar organizations around the world.

    That's what is underneath all the squawking about the FBI, the Secret Service, and FinCEN. It is terrorism. And I would rather send a bunch of detectives to arrest a terrorist cell than to send in the US Army to invade a country where the terrorists might be operating.

  13. #13
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    I know a bit about the Constitution, and the 4th Amendment is supposed to prevent the government from tracking what I (or any American) does with their money, absent a warrant and the probable cause needed to obtain one.

    Doesn't matter if I transfer more than $9,999; or make $600 from PayPal transactions.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    8,182
    Thanks
    688
    Thanked 952 Times in 739 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Nothing is better than "knowing a bit". Better to know more than a bit.

  15. #15
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Nothing is better than "knowing a bit". Better to know more than a bit.
    I don't think you're saying what you think you're saying.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  16. #16
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Back on topic...

    I occasionally enjoy watching the Oxford Union speeches and debates. One recent event debated the question "Is Populism a Threat to Democracy?". There were several student speakers advocating for each side, and Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi participated.

    While this young man's delivery wasn't as polished as some of the others, his argument is both sound and compelling.



    -edit-

    The video above is 6 of 6, but here are the links to the previous speakers. Odd numbers are in favor, even numbers in opposition. Pelosi is 5/6

    1/6 (Populists offer simple solutions that fall short of solving complex problems)
    2/6 (Populism is democratic, it's the checks & balances that fail us)
    3/6 (Populism is a threat to democracy & the greatest challenge of our times)
    4/6 (Populism is a foundational element of democracy, manipulated by demagogues)
    5/6 (Populism is a threat to democracy due to voters being manipulated)
    Last edited by dneal; May 11th, 2024 at 08:01 AM.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,649
    Thanks
    222
    Thanked 911 Times in 658 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Marshall Winston was the banjo player (banjoist?) for Mumford & Sons.. He left the group so that he would be able to express his political opinions, per Wikipedia.


  18. The Following User Says Thank You to kazoolaw For This Useful Post:

    dneal (May 12th, 2024)

  19. #18
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    7,457
    Thanks
    2,744
    Thanked 2,612 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    I assumed the name was a coincidence (you've reversed first and last) - but it does indeed look like it's the same person.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  20. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,649
    Thanks
    222
    Thanked 911 Times in 658 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    Geriatric dyslexia

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to kazoolaw For This Useful Post:

    dneal (May 12th, 2024)

  22. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    US
    Posts
    8,182
    Thanks
    688
    Thanked 952 Times in 739 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Dangers to Democracy

    I play two finger claw hammer if that helps. 12” Mike Ramsey openback

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •