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Thread: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

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    Angry Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Ah, the non-pen people. I need to make certified copies of some documents, so that I can apply for permanent residence in the country I live in (yay me!). Obviously, I sign pretty much everything with a FP. One of the documents (a rental lease extension) was signed with my lovely Platinum 3776 with a SF nib and inked with Iroshizuku Ku-jaku. And... The people at the post office (which is where these copies are made) refused to make a copy because they weren't sure it was an original signature rather than a printed-out copy. The problem apparently being that the ink is green. (It's not even green. It's turquoise, which as far as I am concerned is blue and green in equal measure.) Here's the thing, though. There is no law that says that blue ink must be used. At least not in this country! (As far as Google can tell anyway.) And technically, their argument wasn't that the signature isn't allowed to be green. Just that they weren't sure that it was an original. Now, why exactly green would look more "printed out" than blue - I have no idea. Blue is no less printable than green. I even showed them the exact pen and ink that I used, scribbled something on a piece of paper to show them it's the same color - no use.

    And once I got back home, it occurred to me that I could use my saliva to smudge it a bit - and it actually works! (It's Iroshizuku...) No way that a printed-out copy could be smudged like that. I'll go back tomorrow and demonstrate it to them. Me, my Ku-jaku signed document, my tongue, and my finger. All to be done in their presence. Too bad I didn't think of it while I was there. (Let's hope it works.)

    In the meanwhile... Lesson learned: I'll get myself one of those hyper-cheap blue ballpoints for signing documents in the future. The uglier the better!

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Now it occurs to me that I should probably go to a different post office. They'll remember me at the one I went to today, and they may dig in their heels rather than admit that they were wrong. I slightly (very slightly!) smudged the signature, so when a different person takes a look at it, it probably won't even occur to them that the thing is "printed out" (it's not!). And if it does... Saliva to the rescue!

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    There is no fortress stronger than the made-up mind of a low-level bureaucrat!

    I'd go to a different P.O. smile and pour on the charm!!!

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliant Bill View Post
    There is no fortress stronger than the made-up mind of a low-level bureaucrat!
    Ha! That's a keeper!

    Anyway: success! I went to a different post office with my piece of paper and saliva-smudged signature, and I got my certified copy.

    Well. It appears that in this day and age of high quality printing, it's important for signatures on official documents to look crappy enough. Sufficiently crappy that they don't look like high-quality print-outs. So, I'll need to make sure I sign everything with blue ballpoints only, preferably poor quality ones, to make sure the result doesn't look even remotely like a good printer may have produced the thing.

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    FWIW, in situations where I think someone is going to care, I wait and sign the document in front of them.

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Quote Originally Posted by LizEF View Post
    FWIW, in situations where I think someone is going to care, I wait and sign the document in front of them.
    Indeed, but not if you suddenly need a certified copy of it! I actually needed a whole bunch of documents, some of which are several years old (e.g. my job contract).

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliant Bill View Post
    There is no fortress stronger than the made-up mind of a low-level bureaucrat!

    I'd go to a different P.O. smile and pour on the charm!!!
    The first time I applied for a passport, I went to the US Passport Office in Rockefeller Center. That was about 1990. I handed my birth certificate and paperwork to the clerk, who demanded: "Where is your proof of Naturalization?" My people have been here since about 100 years before the first census, and my birth certificate said I was born in Washington, DC.

    "I was born in Washington," I replied. "Like it says".

    Oh, she knew. "You marked 'DC' in the 'state' box. The District of Columbia is not a state".

    By now, I was near losing my temper, but knew that it would not help. So I suggested, "DC was set aside in the US Constitution, which says that the USA shall have a district set aside as the seat of government. So the Constitution says I was born in the United States."

    She was unpersuaded. "You were not born in a state, so you are not a natural-born citizen of the United States. Please show me your naturalization papers making you a citizen".

    Just then, a manager walked past, slowing to look over the clerk's shoulder as my voice got louder and more exasperated. The clerk turned to the boss, and asked, "Are people born in Washington, DC natural-born citizens?" I opened my mouth and drew in a breath, but the manager just rolled her eyes.

    "Give the man his passport", the manager said. "Anyone born in Washington is a citizen", she said through gritted teeth. "Of course".

    My conclusion: for every low-level bureaucrat there is a manager somewhere who can over-rule stupidity.

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    I don't think I've ever run into a requirement to sign a document in blue ink. But then, maybe the bureaucrats that I encountered just didn't care.

    When I was in the Navy (which was before I'd ever tried a fountain pen) we had a requirement to use black ink on any official document, such as a log book or any form that needed to be filled out. When I got out, I was determined to use blue ink on everything. Still ballpoints at the time.

    Later, I discovered gel pens, but still stayed with blue. Later still, more than 12 years ago now, I tried a fountain pen, and it was love at second sight (my first fountain pen wasn't very good). How could I not try more colors? I used browns, purples, greens, reds, grays, even the occasional black ink, and of course blues. Like Miss Fountain Pen, I have some Iroshizuku inks, but haven't tried any of their green ones.

    I've signed in different colors, and haven't had an objection to any of them, but then, I'm not sure if any of those were with a government agency; maybe that's the crucial factor here.

    I do make sure to use water resistant inks for anything important, but I doubt if they think to check for that.
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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Back when the FCC required that all forms and applications be in the form of paper documents, they require that the documents be signed in blue ink so that they knew which was the original, and which were the copies. I got chewed out by our FCC atty, when I signed with black Penman ink. If you receive a document from the FCC (i.e. an authorization/license) the original will be signed with a very distinctive blue ink. I still sign documents with blue ink, or blue black for documents.

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    I still sign documents with blue ink, or blue black for documents.
    So do I. However I once had a terrible experience with a bank manager when I signed the bank's documents with blue black ink. He looked at me and said: "You can't sign the documents in black" to which I responded: "That is not black ink, it is blue-black!"

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Official or not, I maintain skeptical of anything other than informal personal notes written in green ink.

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    I just don't tell them that as the dye fades, it'll turn brown.

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    I was once refused entry to the US until I completed my entry card again in either blue or black ink. At Miami they refused to accept the Montblanc blue/green RB ink that was in my Boheme.
    Last edited by Chrissy; April 13th, 2024 at 05:28 AM.
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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    At least you weren’t required to answer constitutional questions before being allowed to vote.

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    At least you weren’t required to answer constitutional questions before being allowed to vote.
    Voters in person here now have to provide valid ID. We still use the postal voting system since there was a general election while we were out of the country.
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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliant Bill View Post
    There is no fortress stronger than the made-up mind of a low-level bureaucrat!
    Herbert.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQONBf9xMss

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    Default Re: Sign a document with a FP and have people doubt the validity

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