Kyo No Oto turning purple?

[LizEF]

I have cleaned the pen as thoroughly as I can without any disassembly... rinsing the nib and feed under the faucet, fill and expel until the water runs clear, fill then submerge it in water to soak a while, flush with pen flush, fill with pen flush and ultrasonic a few times, rinse the pen flush out, fill with water and ultrasonic, rinse a few more times...

Only after the first ultrasonic was there any color to the water. Everything thereafter was overkill. Just for more overkill, I'm soaking the pen in water (and filled completely with water) overnight. If the water is still clear in the morning, I'll empty it, let it air out for a while, then try Aonibi again.

[Brilliant Bill]

You're more adventurous than I!

[Jon Szanto]

You're more adventurous reckless than I!

FIFY

[LizEF]

You're more adventurous reckless than I!

FIFY

[LizEF]

Well, I had filled the pen with Aonibi on 29 June. I used it nearly every day until last week when I got very busy (not sure how much I did / did not use it last week). Today the ink is purple - both in the barrel and coming out the nib. I'm going to go ahead and clean the ink out of the pen because I can only believe that it's reacting with some part of the pen and I don't want it doing any more damage (if damage has been done). Bummer, cuz it was the perfect ink for this pen.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Well, THAT is strange. I doubt any damage was done but please keep us posted.

[LizEF]

Pen is all clean and drying. Now I wonder what the next ink will do.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Did you ever see a chroma in case there could be a red element?

Never mind, I just saw there isn't.

[Chrissy]

Well, I had filled the pen with Aonibi on 29 June. I used it nearly every day until last week when I got very busy (not sure how much I did / did not use it last week). Today the ink is purple - both in the barrel and coming out the nib. I'm going to go ahead and clean the ink out of the pen because I can only believe that it's reacting with some part of the pen and I don't want it doing any more damage (if damage has been done). Bummer, cuz it was the perfect ink for this pen.

How very disappointing after everything you did to fix this. It now looks like you've established that something inside the pen is reacting with something in the ink. I've never heard of that happening before with a modern pen & ink.

[LizEF]

It now looks like you've established that something inside the pen is reacting with something in the ink. I've never heard of that happening before with a modern pen & ink.

Me either. Very surprising. I've now thoroughly cleaned out the pen, and am going to fill it with an ink that I used to use a lot in the pen (Robert Oster Blue Denim) and see if it also changes color. And I'm going to fill another pen (still not sure which) with Aonibi to see how it does long term in some other pen.

[junglejim]

Liz, based on what you have written, the main factor is time in contact with the ink.

Looking at pictures of the plunger system on the Visconti Homo Sapiens London Fog it appears that at the very end of the plunger, where the plastic/teflon(?) seals end, the titanium metal rod has a metal fitting that is in contact with the ink. The rod is (from the descriptions from Visconti) made of titanium, but I suspect that it may be a titanium alloy, as is the end of the fitting components.

There are a lot of different titanium alloys, and I suspect what may be occurring is galvanic corrosion. (Just my 2 pence.)

A good example is when older homes have their water plumbing lines renovated. The older galvanized water pipes from the 1950's through the mid 1970's are replaced with newer copper water lines. If the plumber is inexperienced, or cheap or rushed, he will sweat the copper pipe section with a copper fitting right onto the galvanized pipe without adding a cathodic protection device. Over time, as water sits at that section and slowly moves through the water pipe, an electric current forms and starts dissolving the metals (usually a mixture of iron and zinc from the galvanized pipe and copper and lead from the copper pipe and flux that was used) right into the drinking water. When analyzing the drinking water we see the dissolved metals and changes in the pH value (water BEFORE entering the home vs water coming out of the faucet inside the home.)

Over the decades I've analyzed a lot of different titanium alloys. The US military seems to be in love with that stuff. Some of it is very good; some alloys are not appropriate for the conditions it was made for. I suspect there may be some galvanic corrosion that is occurring at the Visconti fitting end that may be affecting that particular ink's chemical properties and changing its color. If you were to try a different ink (say Pelikan or Montblanc or whatever) you may find there is no reaction or color change.

Jiayu Yang et al wrote a nice paper on titanium corrosion via galvanic effects. I can PM you the link if you are interested. Sorry for the long post.

All the Best.

[LizEF]

Liz, based on what you have written, the main factor is time in contact with the ink.

It does seem so, but the color change happened a lot faster this time than it did last time.

... galvanic corrosion...

No need to apologize! Thank you for the long explanation - it makes sense. And a plumber explained this to me not that long ago, though in less detail. (I like to hang out with and learn from tradesmen who work on my home. ) Perhaps Aonibi, like many Japanese inks, is very alkaline, and that "kicked things off".

I plan to use Robert Oster Blue Denim because in the past, it spent a *lot* of time in this pen and I never had a problem with it. So it's a "known good". If it reacts, I'll have to assume some damage is done inside the pen, even though I can't see any. Meanwhile, I'll also put Aonibi in my last Nemosine Singularity (like its predecessors, its cap is starting to crack ). It's a very wet pen, and a demonstrator, so I'll be able to see if the ink starts to turn purple.

Will report back whenever I know more - could be a few weeks...

[Sailor Kenshin]

Liz, based on what you have written, the main factor is time in contact with the ink.

Looking at pictures of the plunger system on the Visconti Homo Sapiens London Fog it appears that at the very end of the plunger, where the plastic/teflon(?) seals end, the titanium metal rod has a metal fitting that is in contact with the ink. The rod is (from the descriptions from Visconti) made of titanium, but I suspect that it may be a titanium alloy, as is the end of the fitting components.

There are a lot of different titanium alloys, and I suspect what may be occurring is galvanic corrosion. (Just my 2 pence.)

A good example is when older homes have their water plumbing lines renovated. The older galvanized water pipes from the 1950's through the mid 1970's are replaced with newer copper water lines. If the plumber is inexperienced, or cheap or rushed, he will sweat the copper pipe section with a copper fitting right onto the galvanized pipe without adding a cathodic protection device. Over time, as water sits at that section and slowly moves through the water pipe, an electric current forms and starts dissolving the metals (usually a mixture of iron and zinc from the galvanized pipe and copper and lead from the copper pipe and flux that was used) right into the drinking water. When analyzing the drinking water we see the dissolved metals and changes in the pH value (water BEFORE entering the home vs water coming out of the faucet inside the home.)

Over the decades I've analyzed a lot of different titanium alloys. The US military seems to be in love with that stuff. Some of it is very good; some alloys are not appropriate for the conditions it was made for. I suspect there may be some galvanic corrosion that is occurring at the Visconti fitting end that may be affecting that particular ink's chemical properties and changing its color. If you were to try a different ink (say Pelikan or Montblanc or whatever) you may find there is no reaction or color change.

Jiayu Yang et al wrote a nice paper on titanium corrosion via galvanic effects. I can PM you the link if you are interested. Sorry for the long post.

All the Best.

I'm also interested! Wonder what alloy component might help turn a blue ink purple?

[LizEF]

Well, when examining the Visconti before filling, it doesn't look damaged, but there is something at the piston-end of the barrel, where there's a rubber seal (not like a typical o-ring, but serving the purpose of sealing around the rod so ink doesn't get out that end). That rubber seal is on what looks like the equivalent of a washer, which is the color of brass. As I examined it, I alternated between thinking it was metal and thinking it was something more like leather... Now that the pen is inked, it's completely the color of the ink, which suggests either it doesn't go all the way to the edge of the barrel (seems strange if it's part of what helps keep ink in the barrel and not coming out the piston rod end), or that it is indeed something fibrous that can soak in the ink... But that also seems like a weird idea. If it is that, then it would suggest that some dye or other has gotten stuck in there and even all my cleaning hasn't gotten it out... Puzzling, to say the least.

Anyway, the Visconti is now full of Robert Oster Blue Denim and my Singularity is full of Aonibi. Time will tell (or not)...

[Brilliant Bill]

Time.

Time is a dim-witted friend, and a relentless enemy. Quite a feat for something that doesn't even exist.

[Chrissy]

It seems like Visconti may need to consider using some sort of precious resin like Montblanc does. LOL

[LizEF]

It seems like Visconti may need to consider using some sort of precious resin like Montblanc does. LOL

ROFL.

[LizEF]

First fill of Aonibi in the Singularity ran out. Decided to eyedropper it - the ink's so dry that there's hope it won't blurp. And that's closer to how the ink was in my Visconti - which is still on its first fill of RO Blue Denim, which seems normal so far.

[LizEF]

FWIW, it's now been long enough that I'm convinced something in the Aonibi was reacting with something in the Visconti. I would have to guess that Aonibi is quite alkaline and that's why it reacted, though I guess it could be some other reason. Anyway, Aonibi in my eyedroppered singularity has stayed Aonibi-colored, and Robert Oster Blue Denim in my Visconti has stayed Blue Denim...