While did Trump win and Harris lose?

[Warbler]

Here are some of my thoughts:

1. some percentage is sexism and racism. I don't think it is highest reason, but it is there.

2. people being sick of extreme liberalism and wokism, and cancel culture.

3. Harris it was too easy for the Trump and the right to paint her as extremely liberal and tie the problems of the Biden administration around her neck(the Afghanistan exit, the economy, the problems at the southern border, the two wars, ect . . . ).

4. I agree with everyone in the media who is saying that the Dems failed to appeal to the working class and lost touch with them. I also think the Dems failed to appeal to moderates.

5. the mainstream media. You want to want to know why Trump won despite all bad and stupid and offensive things he did and said? It is because those on the right did not the trust media reporting these things. For years now, it has been obvious that the mainstream media has a left leaning bias. This has caused many stories to be slanted and exaggerated. It got to the point when many on the right got fed up stopped trusting then and went to right-wing 'r us news networks that did Trump's bidding and spread his lies.

6. Biden should have dropped out sooner. If he dropped out before the primaries. Another Dem candidate could have selected using the normal process. I think it needed to be someone totally outside the Biden administration. At the time Biden dropped out, they just about had to pick Harris. If they didn't they would have had the huge problem of passing over the black female candidate, it would not have been a good look. If Biden had dropped out before the primary. It would have been the Dem voters passing her over, not the party big wigs.

There are other reasons I could list, but I think that will do for now.

[dneal]

Here are some of my thoughts:

1. some percentage is sexism and racism. I don't think it is highest reason, but it is there.

This is just a Democrat narrative. Aside from individuals (which one could find in either party), the GOP isn't sexist or racist. See: Kristi Noem, Condaleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, Carol Swain, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, KellyAnne Conway, Joe Ladapo, etc...

2. people being sick of extreme liberalism and wokism, and cancel culture.

Yes. This is how Democrats lost Elon, Rogan, RFK, Tulsi and a whole host of former liberals. Democrats demanded an ideological purity to a nebulous ideology based on who was offended and how egregiously offense was taken. Elon's oldest son "transitioned". He has publicly stated in various ways that "the woke mind virus killed my son", and he would dedicate himself to killing that virus.

Democrats made strategic mistakes that were catastrophic.

3. Harris it was too easy for the Trump and the right to paint her as extremely liberal and tie the problems of the Biden administration around her neck(the Afghanistan exit, the economy, the problems at the southern border, the two wars, ect . . . ).

It was too easy. Harris had several opportunities to refute those characterizations. She didn't. Her "nothing comes to mind" answer to "what would you have done differently?" during an appearance on The View was her largest failure. Biden policy seemed to be "do the opposite of whatever Trump did". Like him or not, people were happy with the border and economy.

4. I agree with everyone in the media who is saying that the Dems failed to appeal to the working class and lost touch with them. I also think the Dems failed to appeal to moderates.

They didn't just fail to appeal. They shunned them as "deplorables" and "bitter clingers to their guns and bibles".

5. the mainstream media. You want to want to know why Trump won despite all bad and stupid and offensive things he did and said? It is because those on the right did not the trust media reporting these things. For years now, it has been obvious that the mainstream media has a left leaning bias. This has caused many stories to be slanted and exaggerated. It got to the point when many on the right got fed up stopped trusting then and went to right-wing 'r us news networks that did Trump's bidding and spread his lies.

Not just the right. If you listen to centrist Democrats who voted Trump for the first time, it was the covid lies and things like the "fine people" hoax that pushed them away from corporate media. The 4 tech-bros / Silicon Valley venture capitalists (i.e.: David Sacks) who host the "All-In" podcast were all Obama, Hillary and Biden supporters/donors. They aren't alone. Shaun Maguire of Sequoia Capital. Naval Ravikant. There are a lot of them. They didn't become billionaires because they're dumb people. They have children and care about what kind of country those children will grow up in.

6. Biden should have dropped out sooner. If he dropped out before the primaries. Another Dem candidate could have selected using the normal process. I think it needed to be someone totally outside the Biden administration. At the time Biden dropped out, they just about had to pick Harris. If they didn't they would have had the huge problem of passing over the black female candidate, it would not have been a good look. If Biden had dropped out before the primary. It would have been the Dem voters passing her over, not the party big wigs.

Yes. RFK Jr. would likely have defeated Trump. The Democrat machine had their media wage an enormous smear campaign for daring to challenge a candidate anyone could see wasn't cognitively fit for office.

There are other reasons I could list, but I think that will*do*for*now.

The people are tired of the alliance between political oligarchs and a bureaucratic, corporate kleptocracy. They're tired of nonsense wars, enormous debt and a perception that they can't have the life their parents or grandparents had. This is the case for both parties. Bernie was the first insurgent populist candidate. The Democrat machine (and superdelegates) stopped his bid. Trump was the second insurgent populist candidate. Listen to Bannon's PBS interview (or shriek he's whatever pejorative comes to mind). If one views him as an enemy, one should at least listen to and understand what they are up against. I'm not a Maoist, but I've read his theory of insurgency.

Trump destroyed the old GOP, and has given it a reboot. The Democrats aren't there yet.

[kazoolaw]

3. You say “paint” I say reveal. Free trans surgery for convicts and illegals. Illegals: the clip not understanding why to go the border.

4. And “garbage,” Nazis, etc, which resurrected previous Dem endearments like “bitter clingers.”

5. Media and lawfare managed to make Trump, a millionaire/billionaire former President into an underdog. The media thought they were untouchable after the 2020 cabal. The fabrication of crimes and amended laws to facilitate civil claims allowed him to be one man against the machine

[Warbler]

it was the covid lies

What covid lies do you refer to?

[Warbler]

Elon's oldest son "transitioned". He has publicly stated in various ways that "the woke mind virus killed my son"

His son is still alive. Say whatever you want about transitioning, but it didn’t kill him(unless dead people can give interviews on NBC).

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...iew-rcna163665

[Warbler]

3. You say “paint” I say reveal. Free trans surgery for convicts and illegals. Illegals: the clip not understanding why to go the border.

I saw the campaign ads about those things. I live close enough to philly to get the Pennsylvania campaign ads. I was never sure how truth there was to them. As a general rule, I don’t trust campaign ads by either side.

[Warbler]

The people are tired of the alliance between political oligarchs and a bureaucratic, corporate kleptocracy. They're tired of nonsense wars, enormous debt and a perception that they can't have the life their parents or grandparents had. This is the case for both parties. Bernie was the first insurgent populist candidate. The Democrat machine (and superdelegates) stopped his bid. Trump was the second insurgent populist candidate. Listen to Bannon's PBS interview (or shriek he's whatever pejorative comes to mind). If one views him as an enemy, one should at least listen to and understand what they are up against. I'm not a Maoist, but I've read his theory of insurgency.

Trump destroyed the old GOP, and has given it a reboot. The Democrats aren't there yet.

Nonsense wars? What nonsense wars have the Dems started recently?

[dneal]

it was the covid lies

What covid lies do you refer to?

If you get the shot, you won't get covid; for starters.

Elon's oldest son "transitioned". He has publicly stated in various ways that "the woke mind virus killed my son"

His son is still alive. Say whatever you want about transitioning, but it didn’t kill him(unless dead people can give interviews on NBC).

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...iew-rcna163665

Don't be so literal.

-edit-

it was the covid lies

What covid lies do you refer to?

The people are tired of the alliance between political oligarchs and a bureaucratic, corporate kleptocracy. They're tired of nonsense wars, enormous debt and a perception that they can't have the life their parents or grandparents had. This is the case for both parties. Bernie was the first insurgent populist candidate. The Democrat machine (and superdelegates) stopped his bid. Trump was the second insurgent populist candidate. Listen to Bannon's PBS interview (or shriek he's whatever pejorative comes to mind). If one views him as an enemy, one should at least listen to and understand what they are up against. I'm not a Maoist, but I've read his theory of insurgency.

Trump destroyed the old GOP, and has given it a reboot. The Democrats aren't there yet.

Nonsense wars? What nonsense wars have the Dems started recently?

Please read what I write, in the context I write it. I'm happy to clarify, but nowhere did I say anything about Democrats starting nonsense wars. We don't have hundreds of billions of dollars to give to Ukraine, when printing that money creates inflation and adds to the debt.

Taxpayer dollars to go defense contractors to sell materiel and munitions. Defense contractors employ retired generals and other "experts" to lobby and provide rhetorical cover. Defense contractors donate to campaigns. Politicians buy defense stock. Read Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket", and Eisenhower's speech where he warns of the military-industrial complex.

[kazoolaw]

3. You say “paint” I say reveal. Free trans surgery for convicts and illegals. Illegals: the clip not understanding why to go the border.

I saw the campaign ads about those things. I live close enough to philly to get the Pennsylvania campaign ads. I was never sure how truth there was to them. As a general rule, I don’t trust campaign ads by either side.

Not an ad.

Review Question 14
https://assets.aclu.org/live/uploads...stionnaire.pdf

[Warbler]

it was the covid lies

What covid lies do you refer to?

If you get the shot, you won't get covid; for starters.

No, vaccines don’t 100% guarantee you won’t get the virus, but they done significantly lower your chances of getting the virus and if you do get the virus, getting the vaccine beforehand can help make the symptoms less severe.

Elon's oldest son "transitioned". He has publicly stated in various ways that "the woke mind virus killed my son"

His son is still alive. Say whatever you want about transitioning, but it didn’t kill him(unless dead people can give interviews on NBC).

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...iew-rcna163665

Don't be so literal.

If you ask me if is a scumbag move to pretend your child died when that didn’t happen. I can understand opposing transitioning, but turning your back on your child is a scumbag move.

[Warbler]

3. You say “paint” I say reveal. Free trans surgery for convicts and illegals. Illegals: the clip not understanding why to go the border.

I saw the campaign ads about those things. I live close enough to philly to get the Pennsylvania campaign ads. I was never sure how truth there was to them. As a general rule, I don’t trust campaign ads by either side.

Not an ad.

Review Question 14
https://assets.aclu.org/live/uploads...stionnaire.pdf

and a cut of that video was used in campaign ads. I admit the video is not a good look.

[dneal]

Elon's oldest son "transitioned". He has publicly stated in various ways that "the woke mind virus killed my son"

His son is still alive. Say whatever you want about transitioning, but it didn’t kill him(unless dead people can give interviews on NBC).

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...iew-rcna163665

Don't be so literal.

If you ask me if is a scumbag move to pretend your child died when that didn’t happen. I can understand opposing transitioning, but turning your back on your child is a scumbag move.

The context is "why Dems lost". They pissed off a father, who is one of the richest people in the world, makes electric cars, solar roofs, robots, satellites, rockets that can land themselves, etc... What you think of him is not relevant to that.

[724Seney]

In spite the fact that there are no original ideas in Warbler's list and it is replete with Warbler's ever present malaprops and spelling errors, the fact is that it represents a good departure point for some discussion.
I agree with the editorial comments & insights offered by Kaz & dneal.
I also think it worthwhile to reorder the list in the actual order of importance.
IMO, the order which reflects the true significance & impact is:

1. Her ties to the failed initiatives and problems of the Biden administration. By far and away, #1

2. People being sick of extreme liberalism and wokism, and cancel culture. We warned you Stooge Brothers that you were facilitating this ("This is how you get more Trump") but, alas, you knew better.

The next from the list all may have had some bearing but #'s 1 & 2 were enough to take her down with all the Left, Dems and Wokies with her.

3.. Those on the right did not the trust media reporting because for years now, it has been obvious that the mainstream media has a left leaning bias. This has caused many stories to be slanted and exaggerated. It got to the point when many on the right got fed up stopped trusting them. For sure, and they won't quit. They are as oppressive now as ever before....they are hell bent on continuing to divide our Country.

4. The Dems failed to appeal to the working class and lost touch with them. I also think the Dems failed to appeal to moderates. For sure

5. Biden should have dropped out sooner. If he dropped out before the primaries. Another Dem candidate could have selected using the normal process. I think it needed to be someone totally outside the Biden administration. At the time Biden dropped out, they just about had to pick Harris. If they didn't they would have had the huge problem of passing over the black female candidate, it would not have been a good look. If Biden had dropped out before the primary. It would have been the Dem voters passing her over, not the party big wigs. A plain and simple fact

And, coming in at a VERY distant #6 is:
6. A scant amount of sexism and racism. It is insane the way this one is being overplayed by those who remain steadfast in not accepting the facts.

For four years we have been hearing from the Stooge Brothers and all their like minded fools around the Country that the 2020 election was decisively won by Biden based upon the popular vote AND that Hillary was the winner based upon the popular vote. You insisted we were blind to what was the will of the majority of the people. Well, guess what boys, Trump didn't just win the popular vote, he crushed her with the popular vote. The majority of Americans preferred him to your woeful candidate and piss poor political ideology.

You are in the minority now Brother Stooges!
Deal With It!

[Warbler]

it was the covid lies

What covid lies do you refer to?

If you get the shot, you won't get covid; for starters.

Elon's oldest son "transitioned". He has publicly stated in various ways that "the woke mind virus killed my son"

His son is still alive. Say whatever you want about transitioning, but it didn’t kill him(unless dead people can give interviews on NBC).

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...iew-rcna163665

Don't be so literal.

-edit-

it was the covid lies

What covid lies do you refer to?

The people are tired of the alliance between political oligarchs and a bureaucratic, corporate kleptocracy. They're tired of nonsense wars, enormous debt and a perception that they can't have the life their parents or grandparents had. This is the case for both parties. Bernie was the first insurgent populist candidate. The Democrat machine (and superdelegates) stopped his bid. Trump was the second insurgent populist candidate. Listen to Bannon's PBS interview (or shriek he's whatever pejorative comes to mind). If one views him as an enemy, one should at least listen to and understand what they are up against. I'm not a Maoist, but I've read his theory of insurgency.

Trump destroyed the old GOP, and has given it a reboot. The Democrats aren't there yet.

Nonsense wars? What nonsense wars have the Dems started recently?

Please read what I write, in the context I write it. I'm happy to clarify, but nowhere did I say anything about Democrats starting nonsense wars. We don't have hundreds of billions of dollars to give to Ukraine, when printing that money creates inflation and adds to the debt.

Taxpayer dollars to go defense contractors to sell materiel and munitions. Defense contractors employ retired generals and other "experts" to lobby and provide rhetorical cover. Defense contractors donate to campaigns. Politicians buy defense stock. Read Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket", and Eisenhower's speech where he warns of the military-industrial complex.

Why you did this as an edit to your previous post and not as reply, I do not know.

You said “They're tired of nonsense wars” to me it implied that you were saying the Dens were responsible for getting us into “nonsense wars”. Instead of saying that maybe you should have said they're tired of hundreds of billions of dollars going to Ukraine and and the other things you mentioned in your edit.

In any case, I it is important to support Ukraine.

[dneal]

Why you did this as an edit to your previous post and not as reply, I do not know.

Because I missed it in your flurry of responses, and wanted to consolidate them.

Also, because I can and because I wanted to.

Any other irrelevant questions that derail your own thread?

[dneal]

You really think Musk had that big of an influence on the election?

Purchasing Twitter, campaigning for Trump in PA, creating a PAC that paid people to register other people to vote surely had zero to do with the election outcome.

[dneal]

You said “They're tired of nonsense wars” to me it implied that you were saying the Dens were responsible for getting us into “nonsense wars”. Instead of saying that maybe you should have said...

Maybe you should have read what I wrote, instead of making inferences.

Attributing to me an argument of your own invention is the definition of a strawman.

[Warbler]

Why you did this as an edit to your previous post and not as reply, I do not know.

Because I missed it in your flurry of responses, and wanted to consolidate them.

Also, because I can and because I wanted to.

Any other irrelevant questions that derail your own thread?

I was not intending to derail the thread, that way of responding to my post just seemed strange to me. Also it creates a chance that I might miss you response.

[Warbler]

You said “They're tired of nonsense wars” to me it implied that you were saying the Dens were responsible for getting us into “nonsense wars”. Instead of saying that maybe you should have said...

Maybe you should have read what I wrote, instead of making inferences.

Attributing to me an argument of your own invention is the definition of a strawman.

What you wrote was “They're tired of nonsense wars.”

It is not a straw an argument, it is logic. When you say they are tired of “x”, it kind of says “x” happened, otherwise how could they be tired “x”? Since we are talking about reasons why the Dems lost, it followed that you were saying the Dems were responsible for “x”.

Maybe you should be more clear in what you say. It would prevent misunderstanding.

[dneal]

What you wrote was “They're tired of nonsense wars.”

Correct. What I did not write was:

...to me it implied that you were saying the Dens were responsible for getting us into “nonsense wars”.

An implication is the basic premise of inductive logic. If the premise is false, the conclusion is false, no matter how sound the intermediate logic.

Your implication was false. Through implication, you attributed to me something I didn't say, which you argued against. That's what made it a strawman.

Thus endeth the lesson.