Shame on Rep. Nancy Mace

[TSherbs]

Desi Lydic's takedown of Mace yesterday was particularly piquant (with a dash of Gaetz burning thrown in). Easy Google for those interested.

TSherbs' two minutes of hate, courtesy of the Daily Show.

Mace is getting the negative attention that she calls for in one of her posts. "Bring it on," she says. Well, all righty then. She gets called out for supporting as president the man who has bragged that he would bully his way into the beauty pageant dressing room because he was boss and doing an "inspection." And then ogle the women half-dressed. Or, lest we forget, also brag that he would grab women in the pussy and they would let him because he was a "celebrity." You know, all those safe spaces where women were safe from Trump. But yeah, let's tweet 100 times a day about trans women in bathrooms about safe space from predatory men. Let's do that.

Bring it on, for sure.

That "negative attention" is from folks who lost an election to an Orange Man. It's a reason they lost, but lessons haven't been learned - as you demonstrate in this tough guy "bring it on" diatribe.

Why is the "reason they lost" so important to you? My position on transgender identity and rights has nothing, and always had nothing, to do with whether it would be a winning strategy with the electorate. I have trouble understanding why you keep asserting this--I surely do not care. I don't pick my positions on justice and ethics and identity according to prevailing electorate winds. I can't remember the last time that I worried about majority public opinion when mulling over my own ethical positions. I don't ask my neighbors, I don't ask my colleagues or even my family. I am now part of a religious discussion group through a church, but I do not even ask them.

[dneal]

Deflect through diminish and dismiss.

[TSherbs]

My position on transgender identity and transgender rights comes nearly entirely from teaching transgender students, of having them in my classrooms, of working with their families and listening to them and their stories. From meeting other transgender adults in our local area and seeing them in workspace, and in church settings. These transgender persons now identify, in my experience, equally between male and female, and a few of my students identified as inter-gender--truly embodying the fluidity of gender in their understanding. When this phenomenon first came to my attention, I was flabbergasted. I had only a binary gender identity framework with which to understand humanity. But I was asked to listen as part of my job and to accept working with teens (some were "trans" younger than this, but not in my classroom yet) who were transitioning (no surgery). So I did that. I shut my mouth, except to ask questions, and learned to listen and to question my framework for its authenticity and accuracy as a measure of the span of humanity. My framework changed. That's all I can say. It has never had anything to do with politics or winning elections. My current framework on this comes from direct lived experience and my willingness to at least consider a framework other than the one that I had until I was about 45 years old.

I stay in touch with and meet and have lunch/coffee with several of my former students, some of whom are LGBTQ+ identifying, and some of which are trans. Direct, lived experience. That is *my* history on this issue.

[TSherbs]

Ironically, this is the kind of experience that Chuck claimed I needed to understand Christianity and become more of a believer. So far, that same experience has not yielded the same results (and I am now in a church discussion group every other week) for a belief in God even though I investigate such nearly every day. But it did work for my understanding of "gender" as something apart from (although in many cases overlapping with) biological sex categories.

[TSherbs]

Ironically, this is the kind of experience that Chuck claimed I needed to understand Christianity and become more of a believer. So far, that same experience has not yielded the same results (and I am now in a church discussion group every other week) for a belief in God even though I investigate such nearly every day. But it did work for my understanding of "gender" as something apart from (although in many cases overlapping with) biological sex categories.

I'll add this: I recognize that our mental frameworks do not easily change over time, especially those long-held or psychologically/emotionally invested in. Some of mine will likely never change. But, for me, this one did, after about 7-10 years of continual lived experience.

[kazoolaw]

Ironically, this is the kind of experience that Chuck claimed I needed to understand Christianity and become more of a believer. So far, that same experience has not yielded the same results (and I am now in a church discussion group every other week) for a belief in God even though I investigate such nearly every day. But it did work for my understanding of "gender" as something apart from (although in many cases overlapping with) biological sex categories.

Is this an invitation to discussion, or nailing your flag to the mast?


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[TSherbs]

Ironically, this is the kind of experience that Chuck claimed I needed to understand Christianity and become more of a believer. So far, that same experience has not yielded the same results (and I am now in a church discussion group every other week) for a belief in God even though I investigate such nearly every day. But it did work for my understanding of "gender" as something apart from (although in many cases overlapping with) biological sex categories.

Is this an invitation to discussion, or nailing your flag to the mast?

Not sure what you are asking.

[kazoolaw]

Invitation to discussion is clear.
"Nailing the colours (also nailing the colours to the mast or nailing the flag) is a practice dating back to the Age of Sail that expresses a defiant refusal to surrender, and willingness to fight to the last man." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nailing_the_colours

[TSherbs]

Invitation to discussion is clear.
"Nailing the colours (also nailing the colours to the mast or nailing the flag) is a practice dating back to the Age of Sail that expresses a defiant refusal to surrender, and willingness to fight to the last man." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nailing_the_colours

Thanks, but I don't understand what you are asking me. Go ahead and just ask it directly and dumb it down for me. Is there something you would like to discuss? Just go ahead and ask me and I will let you know. Which topic? Transgenderism? Mace's position? Personal faith journeys?

[kazoolaw]

Post 44: is it a topic to discuss, or a position you’ll defend to the end?

[dneal]

My position on transgender identity and transgender rights comes nearly entirely from teaching transgender students, of having them in my classrooms, of working with their families and listening to them and their stories. From meeting other transgender adults in our local area and seeing them in workspace, and in church settings. These transgender persons now identify, in my experience, equally between male and female, and a few of my students identified as inter-gender--truly embodying the fluidity of gender in their understanding. When this phenomenon first came to my attention, I was flabbergasted. I had only a binary gender identity framework with which to understand humanity. But I was asked to listen as part of my job and to accept working with teens (some were "trans" younger than this, but not in my classroom yet) who were transitioning (no surgery). So I did that. I shut my mouth, except to ask questions, and learned to listen and to question my framework for its authenticity and accuracy as a measure of the span of humanity. My framework changed. That's all I can say. It has never had anything to do with politics or winning elections. My current framework on this comes from direct lived experience and my willingness to at least consider a framework other than the one that I had until I was about 45 years old.

I stay in touch with and meet and have lunch/coffee with several of my former students, some of whom are LGBTQ+ identifying, and some of which are trans. Direct, lived experience. That is *my* history on this issue.

No one asked about your history with Transhausen by proxy.

It's one hell of a deflection though. Well done.

[TSherbs]

Post 44: is it a topic to discuss, or a position you’ll defend to the end?

I am not here to "defend" anything. And you are free to post anything you want. What is it you would like to say? I made pretty clear my point of view. Why not share yours? Although, I still don't know which topic you mean.

[kazoolaw]

If you don’t know….

[TSherbs]

Kaz, why are you playing coy here?

#44 refers to transgenderism, faith, and mental frameworks. Which one of those are you suggesting you'd like to discuss?

[kazoolaw]

This is like negotiating the shape of the table.
No thanks.

[TSherbs]

roger roger

[kazoolaw]

[TSherbs]

I am a big Star Wars fan

[Warbler]

Can't say I liked the PT all that much.