Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34

Thread: best pen for terrible paper

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    204
    Thanked 252 Times in 110 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default best pen for terrible paper

    The title says it all: I am looking for a fountain pen that will write on awful, terrible, no-fountain-pen-should-write-on-this-kind-of-paper paper. The kind of paper that's used for cheap paperbacks. I've done some googling, and someone on an old Reddit thread was recommending Pilot's PO nib. Does anyone have any experience with this? Also, can anyone think of cheaper alternatives? If it's relevant: I'm in Europe, so it would be nice if I could buy from a European vendor, but I'd be willing to order from elsewhere if it saves me enough money (after shipping/customs are taken into account).

    A bit more context: normally, I use reasonable quality paper (obviously). However, I occasionally have to annotate on terrible quality recycled paper. It doesn't happen super often, but it does happen often enough that I'd like a pen/nib specifically for that task. In fact, I was just doing this today, and my Pelikan M200 EF bled through like crazy. I've used my Platinum 3776 SF for the task before, and it wasn't much better.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,953
    Thanks
    6,221
    Thanked 6,106 Times in 1,356 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Pilot Kakuno EF?

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to catbert For This Useful Post:

    Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025), robert.bradley.5 (January 27th, 2025)

  4. #3
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8,145
    Thanks
    2,934
    Thanked 2,805 Times in 1,636 Posts
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    The problem isn't the pen, it's the ink (and the absorbent paper).

    You should be asking "best ink for terrible paper", and I wouldn't mind suggestions for that.

    I suspect you'll get a lot of "Noodler's X-Feather". I haven't tried it myself.
    Last edited by dneal; January 15th, 2025 at 07:46 PM.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dneal For This Useful Post:

    Chrissy (January 17th, 2025), Lloyd (January 15th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  6. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    244
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked 100 Times in 74 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    It is an ever current subject. I lean towards the right combination of pen and ink. Go for a dry pen, firm nib, medium to fine. You have to test, it is a trial and error situation. You may have to experiment. I used to think a couple of my pens were bullet proof; at one point I could write on news paper with out fuss. Then I had an exam last year, tense writing and it was horrible. We were handed out this ruled paper torn from a pad, very absorbent, soft and somewhat rough fibers. The only thing I could come up with that worked was a ball point, the type with sticky ink, even Pilot Gel rollers seeped through the paper with noticeable feathering. I have to add this was the worst paper ever. My basic dry fountain pens perform fine on random, economy priced notebook paper, even Moleskine notebooks. I tend to use Pilot Quink or Pelikan 4001 black, blue or blue-black in these.

    Book stores tend to have Lamy among others, my suggestion is bring your paper along and test before you buy. Lamy Safari is a relatively dry model when it comes to ink flow, with a very even ink like. Some of the economy Chinese made pens are easy to buy for trial and error situations.

    You can look at tests on cheap paper if you like doing research; here is one.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to arrow For This Useful Post:

    Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  8. #5
    Senior Member carlos.q's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    On a hill in Puerto Rico
    Posts
    1,781
    Thanks
    2,538
    Thanked 2,044 Times in 847 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    Pilot Kakuno EF?
    Good choice. Also Platinum Preppy 02 EF nib. Use Noodler's black and you should be good to go.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to carlos.q For This Useful Post:

    Lloyd (January 15th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  10. #6
    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    9,241
    Thanks
    12,179
    Thanked 9,065 Times in 3,004 Posts
    Rep Power
    16

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    I think it's a question of ink and not pen. I would go with an Iron Gall ink. They don't bleed through any paper.
    The only problem with IG inks is that they have a shelf life of 1.5- 2 years years.
    You have Essri (which you must transfer into bottles)
    http://www.registrarsink.co.uk/registrars_ink.html
    Akkerman IG inks
    https://akkermandenhaag.com/products...ntain-pen-ink/

    There are several others in Germany, Büroservice Bergmann etc.


    I have noticed that some European EF nibs actually bleed through more than a F or M nib.

    Good luck!

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Yazeh For This Useful Post:

    dneal (January 16th, 2025), Lithium466 (January 16th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  12. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    204
    Thanked 252 Times in 110 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Thanks, everyone! I've been using Iroshizuku inks, which are lovely, but now that I think about it, probably a terrible choice for the task at hand.

    So, I'll go get myself some iron gall ink. I'd like something that will stand out in contrast to black, so I was thinking KWZ, since they have a variety of colors in their Iron Gall line. That should be as good as Akkerman Iron Gall, right?

    Now, about the pen: even if it's "the ink, not the pen," iron gall inks are tough on pens, right? I don't particularly want to ruin any of my nice pens. So I guess a Pilot Kakuno might be a safe "don't worry about it" option, i.e. if I ruin it, I can just throw it away and get another one. Or am I worrying too much and can just use one of my nice pens? (I don't mean super-nice. I'm definitely not filling any Nakayas with iron gall inks. Just something like Pelikan M200 or Platinum 3776. And I don't have any legitimately cheap European EF's or Japanese EF's or F's.)

    UPDATE: I just found a local vendor for the KWZ Iron Gall Violet ink. (Paid online, now I just need to go pick it up.) Hopefully that'll solve the ink issue. Now, about the pen... I'd appreciate some thoughts. I do have more annotating to do today and tomorrow on the same godawful paper, so I'll just go ahead and ink up my (currently uninked) Pelikan M205 EF (and then clean it as soon as I'm done). But I'm still debating whether to get another (cheaper) pen, specifically for iron gall.
    Last edited by Miss Fountain Pen; January 16th, 2025 at 07:04 AM.

  13. #8
    Senior Member INeedAFinancialAdvisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    1,138
    Thanked 710 Times in 295 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    I have (somewhere…) a pad that i refer to as “The worst paper in the world” (staples 100% recycled)
    I test inks on it. As i recall Pelikan 4001 Iron Gall did quite well on it. Likely so did R&K Salix and scabiosa.
    Iron gall would be my go to on known terrible paper.

    WRT pen choice i would go with something with a very fine nib. And dry writing. Probably a cheap chinese thing but a preppy would also work well.

    Let us know how it goes.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to INeedAFinancialAdvisor For This Useful Post:

    Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025), Niner (January 16th, 2025)

  15. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    204
    Thanked 252 Times in 110 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    And I just placed an order for a Platinum Preppy EF (actually, two of them for good measure). For some reason, I thought that one didn't take converters, but then I double checked, and apparently it does. Well, I have some Platinum converters lying around, so I don't have to bother placing an order for that. Pilot converters are not so easy to find (I checked a couple of European online sellers, and none of them had Pilot converters in stock), which is a minus for Kakuno, since I don't have any spare Pilot converters. (Also, I don't like Pilot converters. I have a lovely Pilot Custom Heritage 92, but that's a piston filler, and no, I'm not about to ink it up with iron gall ink. I don't use my CC Pilots all that much, mostly because I don't really like the converters.)

    I'm picking up the ink today (KWZ Iron Gall Violet, as I wrote above), and the Preppies are supposed to arrive next week (claims the seller). Will let you know how it goes! Thanks again, everyone!

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Miss Fountain Pen For This Useful Post:

    INeedAFinancialAdvisor (January 16th, 2025)

  17. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    244
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked 100 Times in 74 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    The main issue with pens and iron gall is metal, it has in some cases left corrosion marks on supposedly stainless steel nibs. Stainless steels are not all the same, how resistant they are varies. A gold nib should be be fine, both 14K or 18K according to the experts. The plastic, acrylic or resin used in pens should not be affected by these ink, neither gaskets or sealants more than other inks. I have wondered if these inks might need flushing out more often, maybe Yazeh and dneal have more direct experience with these ink. I am used to very forgiving inks that flush out well even if left to dry.

    This conversation makes me think should try an iron gall ink too. As mentioned, I have used Pelikan 4001 blue-black a lot, and is suppose to contain a bit of the iron-gall ingredient. I have not noticed any particular with my pens, cheap or a bit more expensive. I still can`t resist mentioning; a wet flexy Swan pen has been noticeably more prone to feathering or seeping through less ideal paper than my drier firm nib pens, but it has happened.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to arrow For This Useful Post:

    Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  19. #11
    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    9,241
    Thanks
    12,179
    Thanked 9,065 Times in 3,004 Posts
    Rep Power
    16

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    I haven't use KWZ inks. I know a lot of them are not real IG inks. (They don't oxidize like Essri or Akkerman).

    But I'm guessing that you won't have any problem with the KWZ Violet.

    I wouldn't want to use a Pilot Kakuno Ef and an Iron gall ink. Pilot Kakuno Ef nib is very fine nib and for some reason very dry. If you're going to get one go for F or M. The combination of a Kakuno Ef with low lubricated "real" IG won't be pleasant in my experience. It'll be like scratching finger nails on a chalkboard

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Yazeh For This Useful Post:

    catbert (January 16th, 2025), INeedAFinancialAdvisor (January 16th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  21. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,953
    Thanks
    6,221
    Thanked 6,106 Times in 1,356 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    I've been using my EF Kakuno with Platinum carbon black on some terrible paper. Works great.

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to catbert For This Useful Post:

    Lloyd (January 16th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025), Yazeh (January 16th, 2025)

  23. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    204
    Thanked 252 Times in 110 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Got the ink! (KWZ IG Violet, as stated above.) Very unusual smell. I don't know if it's because it's iron gall, or if it's KWZ in particular.

    Anyhow... I inked up two of my pens with it: Pelikan M205 EF and Sailor Sapporo F. With the former (M205), I still get some feathering, but it's definitely an improvement over my Pelikan M200 EF with Iroshizuku Yama-Budo. With the latter (Sapporo), well, it's really dry and a little bit skippy, but there's no feathering at all. So, I don't know. I'm not completely happy with either, although both are obviously better than what I was using yesterday (M200 with Yama-Budo). I might try to experiment with other pens to see if I can get better results. We'll see about the Preppy that I'm supposed to get next week.

    UPDATE: I decided to try to do something about Sapporo's dryness. So, I spread the tines with my fingernails. It's a much better writer now, writes really nicely on standard office paper, and maybe it won't be spending so much time uninked anymore. However, on that terrible paper, I now get every bit as much feathering with it as with the M205. Well. Back to the pen search... We'll see about the Preppy next week.
    Last edited by Miss Fountain Pen; January 16th, 2025 at 01:15 PM.

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Miss Fountain Pen For This Useful Post:

    catbert (January 16th, 2025), INeedAFinancialAdvisor (January 16th, 2025), Yazeh (January 16th, 2025)

  25. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Eastern Canada
    Posts
    185
    Thanks
    473
    Thanked 145 Times in 83 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    I have a Pilot Custom Heritage 912 with a PO nib. It's designed to write really small on crappy Japanese postcard paper. (The PO stands for Post Office.) In a cheap, old, paperback book, it writes without feathering or bleed-through using Waterman Serenity ink.

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Stands on Feet For This Useful Post:

    catbert (January 16th, 2025), INeedAFinancialAdvisor (January 16th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  27. #15
    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    9,241
    Thanks
    12,179
    Thanked 9,065 Times in 3,004 Posts
    Rep Power
    16

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    I've been using my EF Kakuno with Platinum carbon black on some terrible paper. Works great.
    I used Carbon Black with a Pocket platinum, I loved the combo, especially for sketching. Now, I switched to Lexington Gray. though, the only bad paper I use is for sketching

  28. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Yazeh For This Useful Post:

    catbert (January 16th, 2025), INeedAFinancialAdvisor (January 16th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  29. #16
    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    9,241
    Thanks
    12,179
    Thanked 9,065 Times in 3,004 Posts
    Rep Power
    16

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Fountain Pen View Post
    Got the ink! (KWZ IG Violet, as stated above.) Very unusual smell. I don't know if it's because it's iron gall, or if it's KWZ in particular.

    Anyhow... I inked up two of my pens with it: Pelikan M205 EF and Sailor Sapporo F. With the former (M205), I still get some feathering, but it's definitely an improvement over my Pelikan M200 EF with Iroshizuku Yama-Budo. With the latter (Sapporo), well, it's really dry and a little bit skippy, but there's no feathering at all. So, I don't know. I'm not completely happy with either, although both are obviously better than what I was using yesterday (M200 with Yama-Budo). I might try to experiment with other pens to see if I can get better results. We'll see about the Preppy that I'm supposed to get next week.

    UPDATE: I decided to try to do something about Sapporo's dryness. So, I spread the tines with my fingernails. It's a much better writer now, writes really nicely on standard office paper, and maybe it won't be spending so much time uninked anymore. However, on that terrible paper, I now get every bit as much feathering with it as with the M205. Well. Back to the pen search... We'll see about the Preppy next week.
    The "vanilla" scent is typical of all KWZ inks.
    Only a few of the KWZ iron gall inks (those that oxidize will function well on copy paper), and I don't know which one they are.
    If you live in Germany, you can try the Bible ink. (low lubrication)
    https://www.gutenberg-shop.de/en/Bible-ink/
    or a brown IG ink:gutenberg-urkundentinte (low lubrication) (Brown black)
    https://www.soldan.de/gutenberg-urku...t-1293420.html

    I don't know if Büroservice Bergmann is still in business, but they have a red IG ink (beside the blue black), delicious to write with.

    Diamine Registrars is very low lubricated ink.
    Essri, is slightly better, I believe is the same.
    I haven't tried the Akkerman.

    You need to ideally rinse your pens once a week, otherwise the blue dye might be difficult to clean from the feed.

    Note: IG inks, dry pens and and Ef nibs (like Kakuno) are a bad idea. IG inks are best suited for wet, with soft nibs.

  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Yazeh For This Useful Post:

    catbert (January 16th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  31. #17
    Senior Member Kaputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    By the long tidal river.
    Posts
    1,229
    Thanks
    3,323
    Thanked 3,617 Times in 879 Posts
    Rep Power
    15

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    The only iron gall ink I have is an old version of Montblanc Midnight Blue. I think the latest version is not iron gall. So can't really help you there.

    But a number of the suggestions above mention extra fine nibs, and I think that may be the way to go, if you can find an EF nib that you like.

    The two finest nibs that I have which I use regularly are on a Platinum Carbon Desk pen, and an older version of the Pilot Elite. The Platinum sits in a pen stand on my computer desk and gets used only for miscellaneous scribblings. It does come with a cap, and could be carried in, say, a briefcase, but would be totally unsuitable for pocket carry. I have the cap in my parts bin; the stand works as a substitute cap.

    The Pilot is, I think, a version from the 70s or 80s. It has a nib marked only "18k soft", but it's very fine, and not surprisingly much nicer to write with than the Platinum. But it will write on poor quality paper. I was using it today to make a few notes on a brochure which was printed on something like newsprint. The ink was just the regular Pilot Blue-Black (from a bottle, not a cartridge), but there was no feathering at all.

    Not suggesting either of these pens specifically, but again, look for something with an EF nib from a reputable maker. Don't think I've ever had a problem with a Pilot.
    "If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly."
    G.K. Chesterton

    https://www.deviantart.com/slivovitz

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/77103607@N00/

  32. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kaputnik For This Useful Post:

    catbert (January 16th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025)

  33. #18
    Senior Member Robalone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    479
    Thanks
    1,035
    Thanked 1,515 Times in 398 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Seems to me it might be a better idea in the long run to use a rollerball or ballpoint ! I hate the things, but there’s a time and a place for them.

  34. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Robalone For This Useful Post:

    catbert (January 16th, 2025), Kaputnik (January 16th, 2025), Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025), Yazeh (January 16th, 2025)

  35. #19
    Senior Member INeedAFinancialAdvisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    1,138
    Thanked 710 Times in 295 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    I haven't use KWZ inks. I know a lot of them are not real IG inks. (They don't oxidize like Essri or Akkerman).

    But I'm guessing that you won't have any problem with the KWZ Violet.

    I wouldn't want to use a Pilot Kakuno Ef and an Iron gall ink. Pilot Kakuno Ef nib is very fine nib and for some reason very dry. If you're going to get one go for F or M. The combination of a Kakuno Ef with low lubricated "real" IG won't be pleasant in my experience. It'll be like scratching finger nails on a chalkboard

    I forgot about ESSRI. pretty sure i have that one too…. Havnt really used my pens in the last year, almost the last two…


    Edit: it’s diamine registrars that i have. .. i think. Can’t look right now. But i really like iron gall inks.
    Last edited by INeedAFinancialAdvisor; January 16th, 2025 at 05:57 PM.

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to INeedAFinancialAdvisor For This Useful Post:

    Miss Fountain Pen (January 16th, 2025), Yazeh (January 17th, 2025)

  37. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    204
    Thanked 252 Times in 110 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: best pen for terrible paper

    Okay, I'm ready to declare the problem "solved."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaputnik View Post
    The two finest nibs that I have which I use regularly are on a Platinum Carbon Desk pen, and an older version of the Pilot Elite.
    Right. I actually have a Pilot Elite EF that had been lying in my pen case uninked for the past, oh, decade or so. Why? Because it was pathologically dry, that's why. Well, now that you mentioned it, I decided to give it another shot and ink it up with my brand new KWZ IG Violet. It was still as pathologically dry as I remembered it. Well, I've gotten bolder about aggressively making pens wetter. Basically, if I'm not going to send it to an expert, and I'm not going to return it to the seller, and I'm not going to sell it, and the only real alternative is that I don't use it - why not give it a shot?! The worst thing that can happen is that I ruin a pen that I wasn't using anyway, and the best thing that can happen is that I get a pen that I can write with.

    Well. The nib shape is such that I couldn't spread the tines with my nails. So, I went for the sledgehammer approach: push hard on paper in the hope of making the thing wetter (hopefully without ruining the nib). And it worked! It writes! And it still makes quite a fine line. Well, my Pilot Elite EF + KWZ IG Violet combo does feather a little bit on that godawful paper, but just a little bit. Definitely beats capitulation to ballpoints!

    Thanks again, everyone!

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Miss Fountain Pen For This Useful Post:

    catbert (January 16th, 2025), Kaputnik (January 17th, 2025), Niner (February 2nd, 2025), Stands on Feet (January 17th, 2025), Yazeh (January 17th, 2025)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •