Levers? Sacs?? ~Again? ~Really? -Help please...

[Skip]

Starting to look at ‘vintage’ pens, I’m mostly only checking out non-lever fillers like cartridge/converter users. Having used lever filling fountain pens in mid 1940’s ‘grammar school’ (yes I am that old) my (perhaps inaccurate?) memories of that experience are less than stellar! I seem to remember the pens not working well; ~remember ink splats all over the place! Of course I was a wild child back then too…

So will someone please enlighten me about lever fillers and sacs? ~Also please bear in mind I am only talking about obtaining restored lever filling pens.
~~~Questions:
1} How long could one generally expect a restored sac to last?
2} How much ink does a sac usually hold, compared to a cartridge?
3} Are sac equipped pens more prone to leaking?
4} Do levers break easily if not handled gently?
5} Will sacs dry out if their pens are just used, say, once weekly?
6} And then how does one fix that, how does one re-clean a sac and restart the pen?

Yep, my questions are all about usage... I would not buy a vintage fountain pen if I couldn’t use it! Much thanks to any who take the time to reply here. ~Any information links will also be appreciated…

[Jon Szanto]

~~~Questions:
1} How long could one generally expect a restored sac to last?
2} How much ink does a sac usually hold, compared to a cartridge?
3} Are sac equipped pens more prone to leaking?
4} Do levers break easily if not handled gently?
5} Will sacs dry out if their pens are just used, say, once weekly?
6} And then how does one fix that, how does one re-clean a sac and restart the pen?

1. If you were in school in the 1940s, the ink sac in a newly restored pen will outlive you.
2. More. Unless it is a really, really tiny pen.
3. No.
4. No. You would have to TRY to break it to break it.
5. Do you mean will the ink dry up? No more so than any other contained ink source. A piston pen, a c/c pen... all of these only have ink loss if the pen itself, especially in the mating of the cap and the section, is poorly fit and creates an air leak. The sac itself will not allow the ink to dry out.
6. The worst part of lever fill pens is flushing, because there is no quick-and-dirty way to do it. You have to fill the pen with water, expel, repeat that cycle until the water is relatively clear.

Lever fill pens were in use when people kept one basic ink in their pen and just refilled regularly. There were not a million inks and people weren't constantly changing ink colors. I use a lot of lever fill pens among my users, but I've also got a good stable of inks that are proven performers, and when I fill a lever pen it is with a writing ink I'm going to stick with and I just refill it with the same ink. On the rare occasion I change, it's a 10 minute process to clean sufficiently. I don't put exotic inks in sacs, never sheen or glitter inks, and stick with some pretty standard inks, such as Parker and Waterman.

Evaluate the filling system for what it is: a robust and tested method for holding ink in a pen, one that gets regular use and is primarily refilled with one particular well-behaved ink.

[Skip]

Thanks for replying Jon.
As for #1, I dunno if that's true
~I'll only be 97 in 10 years...

And re #4, I don't recall ever deliberately trying to break a lever. But kids (well, some kids?) could be rather wild back then in my South Bronx 'grammar' school! (PS-53; ~it's still there and operating!). But I do recall something about if you pulled the lever you could squirt some ink on an enemy, so we weren't very gentle with those fountain pens (or each other) either...

I think I'll hafta get me a restored lever filler. ~I need to feel a little evil again!

(And yes, the only ink we ever used back then in my family home was bottled Scrip Blue...)

[Jon Szanto]

Skip, I'm banking on at least 20 years for a sac if used with reasonable care. If you get past 107, I'll pay for a new pen!

[~JJ]

Skip, when I first got into this nuttiness I chose to eschew levered fillers, mainly because it seemed everywhere there was one horror story or another about bad experiences with them, & everywhere you looked the seller was almost always noting "sac replaced or restored". Too, almost everywhere dealers were selling sac replacements, special tools & gear for repairing them, yadayadayada....which seemingly indicated they were truly problematic, so basically skeert me off 'em I do gotta say!

Then one day I got a pre-war Esterbrook in a package deal, tried it, and was astonished (no better word to describe it!) with how well it wrote, handled, & overall performed. I had all intention of selling it when I closed the deal for the package -- now, it's one of those "pry it from my cold dead fingers" items. LOL.

The experience led me into sussing out more about its history, and I was highly impressed with the engineering and quality that went into designing and building these pens, especially considering their vintage. Another impressive factor about this - the Estrobrook brand at least - is the ease of changing the nib sections or units. Being available for not-crazy pricing, I soon decided to buy a few more Esties, wanting to fill a display box I happened to have showing a variety or at least one sample of each of the six or so colors they came in along with some variety, from the 'dollar pen' (still can't believe they were able to sell them and make a profit at that price point for these), up to a couple of modern era models to cap off the display. I was also able to get a nice variety of nib units (hurry, they ARE drying up!) that impressively fit every one of the dozen or so vintage Esties I've acquired, with zero hassle -- ya simply unscrew one, & screw in its replacement - voila!

As far as the fun, if you didn't know much about pens, ie the models & color styles each company is producing in these modern times, most, with only a mild cleanup, look like they just came from the dealer's showcase. I take delight in bringing one as I did to our local pen club & let them pass it along & write with it a bit. Every person so far is favorably impressed. Then I take special pleasure in telling them, "That pen is 85 years old!" I've had more than one pull it back in for a closer look.

I'll stop there, before this becomes a novella, but I strongly recommend getting yourself a nice "restored" Estie, & second the recommendation of one of the very safe Waterman inks (& I happen to LIKE their Serenity Blue - an ink that's praised by aficionados for its ease of cleaning) and I don't think you'll go wrong. It'll open a whole new fun avenue for ya!

[Jon Szanto]

It'll open a whole new fun avenue for ya!

This!

And I really, really, really hate the legions of 'new' people to the fountain pen world, posting endlessly on the net without knowing what they are talking about - the reports of lever fillers being nightmares aren't just overblown, they are misinformation. It's a thing. They worked for people for decades and decades and they are great pens to have. JJ, I'm glad you got into them, we've always considered the original Estie J pens as the gateway drug to vintage! Hell, that's how *I* learned how to re-sac a pen!

[FredRydr]

Skip, I'm banking on at least 20 years for a sac if used with reasonable care. If you get past 107, I'll pay for a new pen!

I'll take that bet.

[Jon Szanto]

Skip, I'm banking on at least 20 years for a sac if used with reasonable care. If you get past 107, I'll pay for a new pen!

I'll take that bet.

Remember: I'm an eternal optimist.

[Ron Z]

So many answers to the questions begin with "It depends." The ink you use is a factor. I've never had or seen problems with sac pens filled with Pelikan, Waterman, Aurora, or Montblanc inks. The life of a sac? It depends.... on the ink, and how much a pen is used. If the ink is red or contains red, the life could be very short. We usually guess about 10 years of steady use. Broken levers? Most of the time the lever is broken because the pen had a petrified sac in the barrel and someone ignored the cardinal rule "Don't force it!," trying to lift the lever against a very hard sac. But with normal use, no, they don't break.

Ink capacity? It depends - on the length of a sac and the size of a sac. Sac sizes range from #12 = 12/64 to a #22, and the lengths are all over the place. A #18 sac in a long Waterman #7 is going to hold a lot more ink than a #14 sac in a 52 1/2V, or a the roughly 1 1/4" long sac of a Sheaffer Touchdown Tuckaway.

[Skip]

I'm thinking this forum would be an excellent place for me to find and buy my first vintage Shaeffer or Esterbrook as I'm well aware there are several respected vintage pen dealers here... ~But so far I've only been able to easily find Ron Zorn's website and he currently doesn't have listed quite what I'm looking for. (-Yet?)
(And I'm not sure just what that is yet either, but I'll know it when I see it!) ~'"?
So any addl links to the specialist dealers here that sell nicely restored vintage FP's would come in handy?

[~JJ]

eBuy is crawling with 'em. Browse, & any you find that meet your wants, for $30-$60 & state it's been restored or promises to be in good working order, etc will likely be a safe buy. Most tell the all-important nib #, or you can find it in the ad photos, & there's websites where you can learn the numbering system (& they even provide writing samples), eg here:
https://fountainpenlove.com/fountain...iting-samples/

Oh, almost forgot....just Google " vintage esterbrooks for sale " for sources.

[Farmboy]

Sac life likely depends more on use of home brew cleaning concoctions than it does with the ink you use. Lack of use allowing ink to dry in the sac is a far bigger factor than ink is a pen being constantly run dry and refilled

[Farmboy]

I'm thinking this forum would be an excellent place for me to find and buy my first vintage Shaeffer or Esterbrook as I'm well aware there are several respected vintage pen dealers here... ~But so far I've only been able to easily find Ron Zorn's website and he currently doesn't have listed quite what I'm looking for. (-Yet?)
(And I'm not sure just what that is yet either, but I'll know it when I see it!) ~'"?
So any addl links to the specialist dealers here that sell nicely restored vintage FP's would come in handy?

Hungry Nerd had a tray of Esterbrooks posted for sale on another place. They were restored and none were over $50. I’ll see if I can find that post.

[Niner]

Skip, I have restored a number of Esterbrooks with the intention of selling them, but haven't tried selling them yet. I could send you one of them to try out. Depending on which one you selected, my material cost plus shipping within the US would be between $30 and $52. You could pay me that cost and keep the pen, or just send it back if you don't like it. Lots of colors to choose from and just about any nib you want. If the other sources for pens don't work out and you want to try one of my pens, let me know.

[Jon Szanto]

This is a fountain pen forum. Could we please spell SHEAFFER correctly??? (It will help when you do searches...)

[Chrissy]

This is a fountain pen forum. Could we please spell SHEAFFER correctly??? (It will help when you do searches...)

Absolutely.

[INeedAFinancialAdvisor]

Do it
Buy an Estie

I’ll sell you one if you don’t trust eBay.
But do it. They are great and affordable

[Skip]

This is a fountain pen forum. Could we please spell SHEAFFER correctly??? (It will help when you do searches...)

Relax bros; it was just a missed fast typo... I know how to spell the name correctly. (And BTW so does Google auto-correct. ~It will even return a search for Sheaffer pens if you type in "Shaf Pens"!)

[Skip]

Skip, I have restored a number of Esterbrooks with the intention of selling them, but haven't tried selling them yet. I could send you one of them to try out. Depending on which one you selected, my material cost plus shipping within the US would be between $30 and $52. You could pay me that cost and keep the pen, or just send it back if you don't like it. Lots of colors to choose from and just about any nib you want. If the other sources for pens don't work out and you want to try one of my pens, let me know.

~PM sent.

[Chrissy]

This is a fountain pen forum. Could we please spell SHEAFFER correctly??? (It will help when you do searches...)

Relax bros; it was just a missed fast typo... I know how to spell the name correctly. (And BTW so does Google auto-correct. ~It will even return a search for Sheaffer pens if you type in "Shaf Pens"!)

I never knew Google auto-correct was so poor at it's task.