Nib Grinding

[@penfancy]

Thanks KrazyIvan! That's a whole wealth of knowledge.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

[KrazyIvan]

The real deal right here: http://youtu.be/rFKAssYpwug

Watch John Mottishaw customize and polish this Pelikan M800 Italic nib.

[fncll]

I'm still trying to make sense of the nib grinding thing. Many people say to never use a stone, others say that's the only good way for the rough shaping. Then you have people like Mottishaw using a powered wheel! I'd love it if someone would do what KrazyIvan did at the beginning of this thread, but with additional notes as to exactly what they were using at each step of the process... between micromesh, stones, lapping films, buff sticks... my head is spinning!

[inky]

Wow, just watched the Mottishaw video, that is amazing! Can you just imagin how quickly things can go from "looking good" to "uh-oh" on that diamond wheel?

[KrazyIvan]

I'm still trying to make sense of the nib grinding thing. Many people say to never use a stone, others say that's the only good way for the rough shaping. Then you have people like Mottishaw using a powered wheel! I'd love it if someone would do what KrazyIvan did at the beginning of this thread, but with additional notes as to exactly what they were using at each step of the process... between micromesh, stones, lapping films, buff sticks... my head is spinning!

In one of the podcasts with Brian Gray, Dan and Eric did bring up the idea of posting videos. That's why I was inspired to post this thread. I am thinking of doing some tutorials but I am no expert, so it would basically be what I have put together myself from my mistakes and what works for my writing style. One thing that video dispels is the myth of using power tools to grind nibs. That was the main reason I wanted to post it.

The text that follows is not directed at anybody in particular. It is just my opinion after observation on other forums and reading threads not on this forum. The main reason, in my mind, that people discourage the use of power tools is either they are afraid of power tools or that it is easier to mess something up, or both :P . Granted, it is a lot easier to mess things up and at a lot faster pace with power tools but to me, that is a cop out. If you don't have the tools or don't want to invest the time, I don't think you should be discouraging others to try what you would not do yourself. You don't throw caution to the wind either but you are never going to learn if you don't try. That is my way of thinking and unfortunately, I only learn by doing. I can read about it just to confirm some idea I may have but my teflon brain does not retain the information. I have to do it for it to stick. I for one, feel comfortable with power tools and take necessary precautions so I don't hurt myself or others. At one point in my life I was a A.B.O. certified optician so I guess that helps a little with the grinding aspect and power tools as it pertains to nibs. This was before the fancy machines they have now to cut lenses down so I had to do a lot of stuff on ceramic grinding wheels and polishing wheels by hand. At the risk of sounding like my dad, I think I did a better job than some of the work I see coming out of these big box optical shops. I think it was a lot easier to mess up a glass, CR-39 or polycarbonate lens than it is to mess up a nib. Let me get myself back on track now.

Right now, my main hang up going the powered route is I don't have a place to work or store the tools needed. I am working on it though. Hopefully, I will have at least a small area to work soon.

I don't think I will ever want to go into the nib grinding business but someone once said, "Never say never." My main concern is reports of people like Richard Binder stopping their nib tuning/grinding business. Who's going to replace them? Is that knowledge going to be passed on? It does help when I see people like Tyler Dahl go at it like he does and I admire his tenacity.

Okay, I'm stepping off my soap box now.

[fncll]

In one of the podcasts with Brian Gray, Dan and Eric did bring up the idea of posting videos. That's why I was inspired to post this thread. I am thinking of doing some tutorials but I am no expert, so it would basically be what I have put together myself from my mistakes and what works for my writing style. One thing that video dispels is the myth of using power tools to grind nibs. That was the main reason I wanted to post it.

I hear you. I was just amazed when I saw Mottishaw going at the nib with a wheel after all I'd read. To be fair, a good number of people do say that power tools can be used, but that it takes skill and practice.

That said, I don't have any relevant power tools and since I am only interested in grinding nibs and repairing pens for myself, I don't know that I will make that investment. Which makes figuring out the confusing world of non-powered abrasives all the more important.

It does confuse me tht some people will say "watch out, that 8000 grit will take off more than you think" while others are starting with 2400 grit nail buffers.

[The Follows]

Thanks for bringing up the topic KrazyIvan. The FPGeeks reviews and podcasts gave me more insight into the care and maintenance of my pens. After hearing them talk about the poor behavior and the adjustments they made to help, I began to look at my nibs a little closer. It's great to have sites like this to talk and get help. Here's a site that helped me understand more about what I was seeing when I looked at my nibs: http://www.marcuslink.com/pens/about...udwig-tan.html

[Rich L]

Anyone ever try fiber optic polishing film to do flossing? I have a bunch of .3µm film and I have a reluctantly wet (meaning a "skipper") nib I want to fix and I have never done it before. I know there are other things that can contribute to this symptom but the question is about flossing and possibly very light "footing."

Whaddaya think, nibmeisters?

Cheers,
Rich

[KrazyIvan]

Anyone ever try fiber optic polishing film to do flossing? I have a bunch of .3µm film and I have a reluctantly wet (meaning a "skipper") nib I want to fix and I have never done it before. I know there are other things that can contribute to this symptom but the question is about flossing and possibly very light "footing."

Whaddaya think, nibmeisters?

Cheers,
Rich

Have not tried it but I think it would be good for a final polish run.

If your pen writes fine with slight pressure but not with normal writing pressure it could be the tine seperation. There are two ways of adjusting tine seperation but first, do you have a loupe? Check to see that the tines have a tiny seperation at the tip. You can also hold the nib up to a light source and see if you can see light throughout the slit all the way to the tip. If not, that is your skipping problem. On a piece of paper just hold the pen like you normally would while writing and just push the pen down on the tip at about a 45 degree angle so you open the tines slightly. Do it lightly, you don't want to spring the nib. Check your work against the light and try writing, repeat until you get the desired flow. The loupe is needed to make sure your tines are aligned.

The way I open up tines is I hold the pen with my thumbs, by the nib shoulders, with the feed towards me and bend the nib at the shoulders, away from me. I use my index fingers to support the back of the nib and section. I just use light pressure and check my work after each bend. I double check tine alignment with my loupe when I'm finished with tine seperation. I am trying to upload a picture right now to better explain the process.

Here is the photo but not exactly right since I had to do it one handed. It should give you a rough idea.


Nib adjustments. by IvanRomero, on Flickr

If you open it too much, you will get very wet flow closing up the flow is a little more difficult to demonstrate. I'll see if I can get some photos when I get home and use my tripod.

[inky]

Thank you for this KrazyIvan! I just did this on my Twsbi Micarta and it is writting SO much better now! Ever since I got it I felt the flow was a little on the dry side, now it's pretty much a 7 out of 10 which is right where I want it.

[KrazyIvan]

Thank you for this KrazyIvan! I just did this on my Twsbi Micarta and it is writting SO much better now! Ever since I got it I felt the flow was a little on the dry side, now it's pretty much a 7 out of 10 which is right where I want it.

I am glad this helped.

[Rich L]

Have not tried it but I think it would be good for a final polish run.

If your pen writes fine with slight pressure but not with normal writing pressure it could be the tine seperation. There are two ways of adjusting tine seperation but first, do you have a loupe?

I have a Leitz Wild M8 so that's plenty good loupe

Check to see that the tines have a tiny seperation at the tip...

There is virtually no space between the tines but it is wet with ink so I'm not surprised I can't see much. The pen will write immediately with the pen held vertically so that tells me that the foot geometry at that angle is good and ink is flowing, however, it skips initially at a more comfortable 45º angle and upon inspection with the super loupe the "45º" foot looks concave. I thought I'd just lightly brush up between the tines with that .3µm film and lightly grind the the tip at a "rounded" 45º angle to make the foot with some 2500 paper and then brush that up with some 3µm paper. I think I want it just a touch convex so the slit touches the paper with some margin of positional error.

Sound like a plan?

Cheers,
Rich

[KrazyIvan]

*I am not a nibmeister but I have played one on television*

Seriously though, this is about the time a disclaimer should be put up. If you mess up your pen, please don't blame me or hold me responsible. You proceed at your own risk.

Leitz Wild M8 - where is the bulging eyeball smiley when you need it? Are you sure you are not the nibmeister?

It sounds like you just described "baby's bottom" if I understood you correctly. Your plan sounds good. Just go slow and do it with the pen inked so you can check your progress frequently as go.

[Rich L]

*I am not a nibmeister but I have played one on television*

Seriously though, this is about the time a disclaimer should be put up. If you mess up your pen, please don't blame me or hold me responsible. You proceed at your own risk.

Hey, you can't be a Sith Lord without accountability!



Cheers,
Rich

[KrazyIvan]

Ahh, there lies the problem. [Darth Vader]Sith's are accountable only to their master.[/Darth Vader]

[jor412]

The main reason, in my mind, that people discourage the use of power tools is either they are afraid of power tools or that it is easier to mess something up, or both :P . Granted, it is a lot easier to mess things up and at a lot faster pace with power tools but to me, that is a cop out. If you don't have the tools or don't want to invest the time, I don't think you should be discouraging others to try what you would not do yourself. You don't throw caution to the wind either but you are never going to learn if you don't try. That is my way of thinking and unfortunately, I only learn by doing.

I don't have power tools and I doubt I'll ever go that route because I don't think I have the hands for them, but I like the thought behind this. I've read a lot of warnings about all kinds of FP repairs and tweaks. I suppose it's done in good faith and I just take it that way. But they're my pens so if I break them while trying to fix them or grind the nibs or whatever, then I suffer the consequences. At the very least, I will have learned a (painful) lesson that I'm more likely not to forget.

[jor412]

I'm still trying to make sense of the nib grinding thing. Many people say to never use a stone, others say that's the only good way for the rough shaping. Then you have people like Mottishaw using a powered wheel! I'd love it if someone would do what KrazyIvan did at the beginning of this thread, but with additional notes as to exactly what they were using at each step of the process... between micromesh, stones, lapping films, buff sticks... my head is spinning!

Me too. Confused and so, trying out different things with no consistent results.

[KrazyIvan]

I don't have power tools and I doubt I'll ever go that route because I don't think I have the hands for them, but I like the thought behind this. I've read a lot of warnings about all kinds of FP repairs and tweaks. I suppose it's done in good faith and I just take it that way. But they're my pens so if I break them while trying to fix them or grind the nibs or whatever, then I suffer the consequences. At the very least, I will have learned a (painful) lesson that I'm more likely not to forget.

That is why I have been doing a lot of practicing with Chinese pens. If I mess one up (which I have not, yet) I am not concerned about the cost. I still have not done anything with gold nibs. The "priciest" nib I have worked on is my bold TWSBI nib. Maybe the Bexley 802 if you consider the cost of the whole pen. Even then, I already had a replacement nib on hand just in case.

[manoeuver]

wreck 30 Chinese pens. then tweak or fix a hundred nicer pens. you'll leave em all behind eventually.

[Rich L]

Straight from the Wild ...

Yeah, I think it's a little baby butt problem. Attached pictures of the problem child - IM from the factory. The end view shows a minuscule misalignment that virtually any pressure will correct but the slight concave bottom I think is what's causing some skipping and non-starting. I really want the bottom flat if not a tad convex which will allow the ink in the slit no alternative but to contact the paper. The amount to be removed is very slight that I think some easy swipes on 2500 at my angle of writing with a little "convex wiggle" will give me the foot I need. I'll polish up with 3µm and then 1µm paper.

Sith dude - not asking advice this time but I hope y'all enjoy the pictures.

Cheers,
Rich